Is Star Wars RPG the perfect d20 system?

[Turjan]

I like Star Wars d20 pretty much, because it's a very concise system. The body of rules is managable, and the classes don't have an extensive but very narrow set of weird ability combinations coming with them. This said, the SW d20 has a few balance problems. And I'm not really a fan of how the VP/WP system was implemented, although I'm not the one to complain about the reduced importance of armor. I don't like its deadliness, though.

The new SW d20 Saga Edition will go to back to hitpoints combined with a five step condition track, similar to SW d6. There will only be 5 classes, customizable wilth many different feat trees (which means they encompass all current classes). The skills have been simplified. And all classes can be potential force users. It's a bit early to say whether I will like the new system, but it sounds interesting enough that I will have a look at it.

Let's see whether this is nearer to the mechanics of the KotOR computer games. I liked them because they were very clear, although the game used quite a few "invented" abilities (feats) in order to plaster over some of the balance issues.

 

[Victim]

Our group mocks Stars Wars d20 as a game done in a weekend. Bad classes, magic, ship combat, equipment, races, damage system, etc.

Just because the races don't have an actual LA doesn't mean they don't deserve them. Races with 4 arms and sneak attack as a racial ability aren't LA zero. VP based magic means guardians are superior force users.

 

[Greg K]

Could d20 be a great system for Star Wars? Yes. Has it been? Not as far as I am concerned. Then again, I don't like the DND style class structure and/or hit points per level for any licensed game based on novels or film.

 

[JVisgaitis]

At first I thought this was referring to the new Star Wars and I was confused as I didn't think it was out... One thing that bugs me about Star Wars is Wounds and Vitality. I'm sorry, but I think its way too lethal. I agree that it increases the danger level and such, but I think there can be a better mechanic for that.

 

[smootrk]

Is SWd20 perfect? not really sure if I would say perfect, but I like a lot of aspects of it.

Now, hearing that the new version has aspects of the D20 Modern system makes me think that they took a good thing and really made it better. Seems like the marriage of the best of both systems to me. I am looking forward to getting that book this May.

 

[thedungeondelver]

Ahem...

Wow, how long before WotC throws this baby out with the bathwater?

 

[greywulf]

Well, I guess it's true. Ask 10 gamer's their opinion, and you'll get d20 different answers

Interesting how many people didn't like the system much (or thought it broken) while I like it a lot. I guess differnet people, different needs and expectations. That's cool too.

I'm really drooling for the new release of Star Wars now; if this game takes off (it's going to alternate for a while with my own Ptolus campaign) I'll pick it up when it's released.

Thanks for the feedback, folks!

 

[Turjan]

Our group mocks Stars Wars d20 as a game done in a weekend. Bad classes, magic, ship combat, equipment, races, damage system, etc.

Heh, too true. The sad thing is that the system has been jury-rigged now for years. I like the Jedi Counseling that tries to save the tech specialist (bolding for emphasis mine):

[sblock]Q: My players and I have some problems with the tech specialist class. It has the lowest skill points of any heroic class (tied with the soldier and Jedi guardian), medium base attack progression, only a single bonus feat at 1st level, and no proficiency with modern weapons (such as blaster pistols). On top of that, you're guaranteed never to master more than two tech specialties, and the most attractive one -- mastercrafting -- costs a ton of XP to use! On account of all of this, I've never had a player who wanted to take levels in the tech specialist class, even if their character concept seemed to fit. They'd all prefer to be a scoundrel, a fringer, or even a soldier than portray a "techie" character. Do you have any suggestions to make this class more attractive?

A: These are common observations about the tech specialist class. The original intent was to make it a noncombat class (thus the lack of blaster pistol proficiency) that was really good at a handful of technical skills (thus the low skill points). Nevertheless, here are some ways to make the class a little more attractive to players. These variants may be used individually or together:

Variant: Tech Specialist Bonus Feats

In this variant rule, the tech specialist class gets bonus feats at 1st, 6th, 12th, and 18th level, chosen from the following list: Artistic*, Cautious, Cybernetic Surgery*, Dodge, Gearhead, Inventor*, Kit-Bashing*, Low Profile, Sharp-Eyed, Spacer, Starship Dodge, Starship Operation, Surgery, Technical Wizard*, Weapon Group Proficiency (blaster pistols), Zero-G Training. The tech specialist still must meet all prerequisites for the feat to select it. This change allows the tech specialist to be proficient with blaster pistols at 1st level if desired.

* Feat found in the Hero's Guide.

Variant: Stacking Tech Specialties

In this variant rule, the Tech Specialty ability is changed so that each time the character gets it, he selects one new specialty at +1, and all previous specialties also increase by +1 (to a maximum of +3). Thus, after a character has gained six Tech Specialty abilities, he'll have four at +3, one at +2, and one at +1. This encourages the tech specialist to select his chosen specialties early in his career, but he can still gain competence and even mastery of more than a few different specialties over time.

Variant: Cheaper Mastercrafting

In this variant, the XP requirement for mastercraft items is reduced to 1/100th of the cost of the item. The Inventor feat from the Hero's Guide reduces this to 1/150th of the cost of the item. This change makes the XP cost of mastercraft items more in line with the equivalent XP cost for making magic items in Dungeons & Dragons.

Variant: More Tech Specialist Skill Points

In this variant, the tech specialist receives (6 + Int modifier) x 4 skill points at 1st level, and 6 + Int modifier skill points at each additional level. The tech specialist class skill list is not changed.[/sblock]I repeat that wonderful sentence: These variants may be used individually or together. This means that the class is still not overpowered if you ramp it up with all four power-ups. Or maybe it is. I have the feeling that nobody of the designers knows or cares.

 

[greywulf]

Our group mocks Stars Wars d20 as a game done in a weekend. Bad classes, magic, ship combat, equipment, races, damage system, etc.

The thing is that the same could be said of the whole of d20, including D&D. The only thing that's changed is the number of weekends

d20 is itself a cobbled together system that kinda-sort-almost works. It's got rules-that-fix-rules bolted onto the top of lecacy systems like some kind of engineer's nightmare. But it's fun despite (or perhaps because of) all this, and that's why we play.

I'd rate Star Wars as one of the better systems of the bunch for the reasons given in the OP; it's not without flaws - as your quote about the Tech Specialist proves so well - but it just wouldn't be possible to create a d20 system without them*.

* Though Call of Cthulhu d20 comes pretty darned close. CoC doesn't work for me as a Fantasy system though; I like my classes in Fantasy. Dunno why. But I do.

 

[arscott]

Wow, how long before WotC throws this baby out with the bathwater?

Delver, I think you're being really unfair to WotC here. The terms of their license with Lucasfilms basically allowed them to either make the SW RPG or the SW miniatures game, but not both. And the minis games are so much more profitable for WotC that, from a business standpoint, there was only one real choice.

And, though it's nice to dream about RPG publishers abandoning sound business practices in order to focus all their production on your personal wants, remember that if WotC didn't make decisions with their pocketbooks in mind, they wouldn't have the recourses they need to get the SW license in the first place.

And it's pretty clear that WotC hasn't abandoned Star Wars so much as set it aside until they could do it properly: Under their new license with Lucasfilms, they've got a new edition of the SWRPG, The SW minis game, and a new SW spaceship combat game.