D&D 5E Is Storm King's Thunder a flop . . ? Still early yet but doesn't look that good.

[Charles Rampant]

Some interesting thoughts here, @Jester David. I can see what you mean - that SKT, like CoS, is designed to be a semi-plotted toolbox that the DM can use to construct his or her own adventure, this one being less plotted than CoS. The impression I got while reading through OotA is that while it had a very definite storyline written in - the players go to A, B, C, escape, return, go to D, E, F, and so on - that it really wouldn't be hard for the DM to just ignore that, or let the players go off the rails. Does it break the campaign for the players to find the Labyrinth while at level 6, and find some of the late-game components early? Not really, no. I read that some games never left the Underdark, they simply travelled straight to Gauntlygrim and immediately started the second half. Fine. You can still have a fully functional and fine campaign, despite ignoring or changing whole chunks of it.

So maybe SKT is particularly beholden to this gameplay style, as opposed to the more heavily plotted one (most prominently expounded on here by @shoak1 and his lovely constructions). And maybe going to that extreme has resulted in a more polarising response, just like ToD got on the other end?

Another possible reason is just that everyone is more interested in Volo's, and so not talking about this.

 

[Mercurius]

Small sample size. It seems the consensus is that it is good but not great, more along the lines of PotA than Abyss and Strahd--but better than ToD.

 

[HawaiiSteveO]

I don't exactly recall, but didn't Chris Perkins mention on recent podcast (WOTC DragonTalk) he pretty much wrote SKT over a long weekend or something when he was sick?

 

[Jester David]

It's not a dick move because you are 100% correct. If you don't voice your opinion then they go on as if everything is fine. I think people forget that we are consumers and if we aren't happy with a product or the direction it's going then we 100% right to say something. Chris Perkins isn't your friend, he is an employee that helps provide an entertainment service.

It's absolutely fair to criticize a product and give it a harsh review. That's pretty much my wheelhouse.
But it's another thing to name names and make it personal. Everyone at WotC works hard on the books. I'm sure Mr. Perkins worked his ass off on SKT. As a creative myself, I know it sucks when someone is hard on something you wrote.

Chris Perkins is not my friend, but that doesn't mean my words won't hurt his feelings.

 

[Prakriti]

The whole sandbox vs. linear debate is a red herring. SKT's problems go way beyond matters of personal preference.

 

[robus]

I love the flow-chart, and I hope it appears in future adventures, but you're right: SKT doesn't get much benefit out of it. That's both because the book is well-organized (the chapter sequence actually coincides with level progression) and because SKT is pretty linear in design.

I actually think each chapter should have a flow chart. That's where a lot of complexity gets introduce (I'm thinking of Gracklstugh in OotA for example). So sure a master flowchart for the adventure, but then also more detailed charts for chapters with a lot of moving parts.

 

[Jester David]

Some interesting thoughts here, @Jester David. I can see what you mean - that SKT, like CoS, is designed to be a semi-plotted toolbox that the DM can use to construct his or her own adventure, this one being less plotted than CoS. The impression I got while reading through OotA is that while it had a very definite storyline written in - the players go to A, B, C, escape, return, go to D, E, F, and so on - that it really wouldn't be hard for the DM to just ignore that, or let the players go off the rails. Does it break the campaign for the players to find the Labyrinth while at level 6, and find some of the late-game components early? Not really, no. I read that some games never left the Underdark, they simply travelled straight to Gauntlygrim and immediately started the second half. Fine. You can still have a fully functional and fine campaign, despite ignoring or changing whole chunks of it.

The big difference is that with Curse of Strahd the final goal and end villain is obvious from almost the first encounter. Strahd literally looms over the first few levels of the story. Everything you do has a purpose, it all relates to the end goal of kicking Strahd's butt. And once said buttocks has received kickage, the lesser problems are resolved, being defanged through loss of support.


None of this applies to SKT.
The titular Storm King isn't mentioned or relevant until two-thirds of the way through the story. Possibly more.
And resolving that final plot point doesn't resolve the main story: the broken ordning.
And resolving that final plot doesn't cease the predations or schemes of the other giants, who remain a threat.

I mentiom in my review that it's possible to replace the last third with a separate plotline that has to do with the giant high god and restoring the ordning. Which is problematic: if you can just effortlessly swap out the climax of an adventure with no real problems, then it wasn't very cohesive to begin with.

 

[Demetrios1453]

I love the flow-chart, and I hope it appears in future adventures, but you're right: SKT doesn't get much benefit out of it. That's both because the book is well-organized (the chapter sequence actually coincides with level progression) and because SKT is pretty linear in design.

As for negative reviews -- I wrote one. One month later, I stand by my review. My opinion has not changed. Every time I think about running SKT, I shudder. It's a totally different feeling than what I get when I read most other published adventures. I loved reading Curse of Strahd, for example. I could envision the locations and the characters, I could fit the pieces together in my mind, and I could, most of all, picture my players having fun. Not so with SKT. Reading SKT is like being handed 25% of a rough draft for an adventure and being told to finish it on your own. Good luck with that.

I would love to say that SKT is a great adventure. The Sword Coast is my favorite adventuring location. I love traditional fantasy. SKT's setting and tone are classic D&D. But the adventure itself -- the most important part -- is a jumbled mess.

Don't shudder thinking about it, go play it! I've been running the adventure for several weeks now (including later on today) and both me and my players are having a great time. You may think it's a "jumbled mess", but it's not - I'm not putting any further prep time than I did with OotA, nor am I changing things up more than I did with that adventure.

 

[discosoc]

I bought it and love it. I don't have any plans to use it as a campaign, however. It's more like a way to pad an existing campaign with a side-plot to break up the theme of your normal stuff a bit. Also, since we're talking about giants, it's a pretty easy story to adapt to higher levels by virtue of adding a few more to each encounter.

To be honest, I'd like to see more stuff like this -- secondary campaigns that have their own story arc, but aren't designed to be entirely self-contained. In a way, they are the ultimate Sandbox GM resources.

 

[LexStarwalker]

Ironically, I think this adventure may be most useful and satisfying to DMs who don't plan on running it. If you're the kind of DM to mine an adventure for ideas, NPCs, locations, maps, magic items, encounters, etc., then I think you'll be very happy with this book. There are a lot of gems in it (for instance, I love how it handles handing out treasure).

However the adventure and story itself is pretty weak. Like all Wizards adventures for 5e so far (with the possible exception of CoS), the hooks to bring the characters into the story are very weak. It also suffers from the problem that plagues so many Forgotten Realms adventure in that the PCs are playing second fiddle to NPCs. The story is about the NPCs; it isn't about the PCs. Yes, the giant matters are spilling out and affecting the "small folk", but ultimately they are still giant matters. Why should we care?

I give my full review of this adventure (much more than I could or would want to write here) on my podcast, and I also devote an episode to discussing more of what I liked about the adventure that can be used by DMs who don't even run it.