Is the age of discounts over?

[Storminator]

Ummm, no. I'll only have more money left over if I forgo buying things on Amazon.

Yes. That's why the following was in my statement: "and you stop buying things from Amazon,"

Let's say the LGS has Book of Groovy for $15. Amazon has it for $10+$2/shipping. I save $3. Now we apply the new judgement where the publisher says the product has to be sold for at least $13. The LGS sells it for $15 or I could buy it from Amazon for $13+2/shipping=$15. I'll buy at the LGS for immediate gratification but also be out $3.

Yes. You will be out $3, but you will have spent $15 more at the FLGS, contrary to Festivus' claim that "...if prices rise at Amazon I will likely not spend any more at the FLGS..."

I'm not a big Amazon shopper, I prefer to shop at my FLGS; I know the guys at and have gamed with some of them. But I like that amazon is there. If my LGS became not so F, I'd gladly send my money to Amazon.

And in your above scenario, you still have the option to send your money to Amazon.

All this means is that Amazon will come up with some discount or rebate program to get around the minimum sale price.

Or they won't. Maybe they'll just pocket the extra cash.

PS

 

[Raven Crowking]

Please consider:

Your FLGS buys books based on speculation, and takes full risk on the stock ordered. If it doesn't sell, the FLGS takes the hit.

A large-scale discount retailer uses that scale to shift risk back to the publisher. I.e., "We'll order 200,000 copies, but you have to buy back any that don't sell within time frame X". (Note: This is how a lot of the magazine industry works, which is why you'll see small retailers strip-covering issues to send the covers back to the distributors.) In other words, if it doesn't sell, the publisher takes the hit.

Because the publisher's risk is higher, to make up the lost revenue, the suggested retail price of the book is raised.

More stock sold through your FLGS means less risk to the publisher, and may, in the long run, mean lower prices overall.

But I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Assume:

Hobby stores grow the market demographic.
Discount retailers do not grow the market demographic.​

No. That's an obviously untrue assumption based on illogical emotional ties to the notion of an FLGS. The local Barnes & Noble sells more copies of the D&D Basic Game than I've ever seen stocked at a game or comic book shop.

My analysis suggests that this strategy is a long-term, not a short-term one. They don't mind that large-scale or internet retailers can reduce fixed costs to sell cheaper; they care that this industry is nurtured best in a small scale FLGS environment.

The specialty game and comic shops have been dying a very long time now, and any producer worth a damn has been focusing on the regular big box book stores for years now. The fact that I can get Green Ronin, Kenzer, WWGS, WotC and other books in stores suggests that the people with these romantic notions about FLGS as business plans are a handful of marginal companies at best.

 

[Bacris]

Honestly, I look forward to this change. I like going to my FLGS, but when Amazon or other big retailers are selling at 30-40% off and the FLGS is selling at full list price, I can see how that hurts my FLGS. With FLGSes going out of business like flies because of such tactics, I'm fine with the change.

And as a budding publisher, I definitely like this change, although my own business will likely not be immediately impacted for any significant time period - this will likely more impact me as a consumer far faster.

Definitely a great read at Ryan's blog.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Felix has it. That's why Mr. Delancey put "And the publishers already know that the full-service retail model is the best way to grow their businesses" in boldface. That's the whole crux of it, that all publishers are absolutely totally convinced of those assumptions already, and have been for years.

Horse pucky.

The fact that there's now an actual section in Borders and Barnes & Noble for RPGs (typically alongside their graphic novel sections) is not a happy accident. There's been a concerted effort for comic and RPG publishers to get distributed through the book trade and the book trade has made a big push to get sold in retailers.

Building your business around the FLGS is like building your business model around the blue whale: They're going, going, gone and no matter how hard we clap, Tinkerbell's not coming back.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Ummm, no. I'll only have more money left over if I forgo buying things on Amazon.

Let's say the LGS has Book of Groovy for $15. Amazon has it for $10+$2/shipping. I save $3. Now we apply the new judgement where the publisher says the product has to be sold for at least $13. The LGS sells it for $15 or I could buy it from Amazon for $13+2/shipping=$15. I'll buy at the LGS for immediate gratification but also be out $3.

I'm not a big Amazon shopper, I prefer to shop at my FLGS; I know the guys at and have gamed with some of them. But I like that amazon is there. If my LGS became not so F, I'd gladly send my money to Amazon.

All this means is that Amazon will come up with some discount or rebate program to get around the minimum sale price.

Just save up your purchases at Amazon until they total $25 or more, and shipping's free. They've had that discount plan in place forever, and that's not including any other discount plans they might have in place.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Honestly, I look forward to this change. I like going to my FLGS, but when Amazon or other big retailers are selling at 30-40% off and the FLGS is selling at full list price, I can see how that hurts my FLGS. With FLGSes going out of business like flies because of such tactics, I'm fine with the change.

They've been going out of business for years, well before the Internet retail boom. To thrive in a niche market, you've got to be a lot better businessman than most hobbyists-turned-retailers are, whether you're talking about model trains, model rockets, comic books or RPGs.

 

[Bacris]

To thrive in a niche market, you've got to be a lot better businessman than most hobbyists-turned-retailrs are, whether you're talking about model trains, model rockets, comic books or RPGs.

Oh, I whole-heartedly agree. There's a lot more to business than most small-business owners realize. I know this first-hand, having seen my parents toil 80 hour weeks at a home-owned business to barely break even. But big-box retailers who are so severely undercutting, especially when publishers may not want their products selling so cheaply, aren't exactly helping.

It goes right back to what Ryan says about how the current state before this ruling isn't really "true" capitalism. Love the US economy or hate it, there's a lot about it that isn't really capitalism.

 

[Storminator]

They've been going out of business for years, well before the Internet retail boom. To thrive in a niche market, you've got to be a lot better businessman than most hobbyists-turned-retailrs are, whether you're talking about model trains, model rockets, comic books or RPGs.

But maybe they will stop going out of business at the current rate. Maybe they'll start going out of business because of individual incompetence, and not for reasons intrinsic to the business model.

PS

 

[Treebore]

Yes, I blogged about this myself before it hit the more public news spaces yesterday (it was initially buried at the bottom of a news article about several other Supreme Court decisions).

Personally, I think it's an exceedingly sad day when an almost 100-year old Supreme Court decision against monopoly power is overturned by the current court members.

Yeah, no kidding. Just goes to show that "all the powers that be" are in favor of the businesses rather than the consumer. Shaft the consumer. Profits matter the most.