Is the breath weapon improving as well?

[Adamantine Addict]

Hi folks,

here's my problem:

I've advanced a dragon turtle to 26HD. The original one (MM p.88) has 12HD and deals 12d12 (fire) with its breath weapon. Does my advanced turtle really deal 26d12 with its breath weapon? In combination with the maximize breath [Metabreath-Feat] (Draconomicon p. 71) it deals a devastating damage of 156! Would be a killer for CR 15...

Is that how it works. Or is there any official rule, I'm not able to find?

Thanks for any help

 

[Dandu]

I'm not sure how a 26 HD creature is a CR 15 encounter.

 

[Adamantine Addict]

You're right, it's CR 16. Original one is 9... I have added 14 HD (for every 2 HD added the CR is raised by 1...) --> CR 16.

Sorry... Doesn't change that much anyway...

 

[Dandu]

I'd check the Draconomicon again for a table of some sort. True Dragons in the SRD, for example, have a table showing how their breath weapon increases as they advance.

 

[the Jester]

The RAW answer is "No"- its breath weapon stays the same.

That said, I recall an Improved Breath Weapon feat somewhere- Draconomicon or Savage Species maybe? Or maybe it was a homebrew, hmm...

 

[Adamantine Addict]

For sure, I've checked the dragon tables in the MM and those in the Draconomicon.

If I follow them, things would become even more extreme:
For example a Juvenile Bronze Dragon has 15 HD and 8d6 breath weapon.
A Very Old Bronze Dragon 30 HD and 18d6 (and not 16d6!). So if you advance them the breath weapon gets proportionally more powerful.

Just as a reminder. My question is: Are there any official rules for advanced monsters supernatural abilities (like Breath weapon).

Nevertheless, thanks!

 

[Adamantine Addict]

[MENTION=1210]the Jester[/MENTION]: Thanks, that's what I needed! so it's just 12d6. Maximized: 72. Somewhat lame... but correct. Thanks!

 

[Adamantine Addict]

@Dandu: thanks for mentioning the CR. That's the reason, I just realized I forgot to take the size increment into account. So its actual CR is 17.

 

[the Jester]

For sure, I've checked the dragon tables in the MM and those in the Draconomicon.

If I follow them, things would become even more extreme:
For example a Juvenile Bronze Dragon has 15 HD and 8d6 breath weapon.
A Very Old Bronze Dragon 30 HD and 18d6 (and not 16d6!). So if you advance them the breath weapon gets proportionally more powerful.

Yeah, but dragons are a special case.

IMHO they ought to be about as tough as it gets, barring deities and their ilk.

 

[Runestar]

Just as a reminder. My question is: Are there any official rules for advanced monsters supernatural abilities (like Breath weapon).

Nevertheless, thanks!

None that I am aware of. Advancing a monster by the existing MM guidelines involves just tacking on extra racial HD, which won't improve much of its base stats.

For example, if you improve an outsider such as a balor, its sr and caster lv won't increase, although dicefreaks came up with an unofficial table suggesting how to scale its various abilities.

You may want to just wing it. I would personally peg it at +1d6 for every +1cr (in line with existing direct damage spells like fireball), so at cr17, your dragon turtle's breath weapon would deal 20d6 fire damage?