Is the Illusionist Dead?

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Oh, I totally agree that 3E D&D does a poor job of adjudicating illusions. But that's not exactly new as the same problems existed in previous editions. The problem is that illusions are SO versatile that the game designers can't come up with rules that will work in every possible situation. It's much easier to create rules for spells with specific effects that don't change, rather than for spells that can be used to create anything the player can imagine. So I don't particularly blame WotC for not making illusions simpler to adjudicate. But it is a problem. That's why I won't play an illusionist unless the DM is onside...

 

[DragonLancer]

Is anyone playing an illusionist anymore? Just about all the Wizard specialists I see
these days go for the sheer power of the Evocer, or the versatility of the
Transmuter. There are very few feats for use with illusions, and a lack of suitable
prestige classes.

I'm playing an illusionist in a Wilderlands campaign at the moment. He's a nice character but I am finding that due to the lack of useful (for our recent adventures and session) illusion spells at his current level (5th) that I am relying on the usual evocation damage spells.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

So, you'd call a spell that allows the Illusionist to mimic the effects of:

1) Sleet Storm
2) Stinking Cloud
3) Web
4) Summon Swarm
5) Glitterdust
6) Melf's Acid Arrow
7) Flame Arrow
8) Summon Monster I-III
9) Unseen Servant (which works like any other illusorily summoned creature)
10) Fog Cloud

changeable at the time of casting as useless? 12 spells for the price of 1? And you don't even have to know those spells? Essentially, that's spontaneous casting.

Yes, you're giving up a higher spell slot to mimic lesser spells, but you're also freeing up spell knowledge for your illusions, evocations, etc. By learning this single spell, the sorcerer has learned 18. Seeing as how an 8th Lvl Sorcerer knows only 18 spells (not including the 4th level slot), this is a functional doubling of his spell knowledge. That is why a Sorcerer would chose this spell- flexibility.
+++
The school of Illusion has NEVER been about raw power, its always about subtlety. You want to be Artillery, be an Evoker or Conjurer. You want to be the Lone Gunman? The Sniper?...be an Illusionist (or a Sorcerer with an interest in Illusion).

 

[Psion]

Does anyone else think that now that the teleportation spells have become conjuration, and because wizards left conjuration with way too many direct damage spells, that Transmuter is no longer the specialist of choice, but Conjurer?

 

[Simplicity]

Personally, I think it would be a good house rule to make the shadow conjuration and evocation spells be any spell of the NEXT LEVEL UP or below (i.e. 4th level Shadow Conjuration lets you cast 5th level conjurations). You shouldn't have to spend a higher level spell slot to get an illusion of a spell.

It would at least give the illusionists some signature spells to stack up against the evoker's fireballs and lightning bolts. The whole point of being an illusionist is bluffing about how powerful you are...

The Greater Shadow spells may have to be knocked down a bit in terms of the damage they do (but that's an easy fix). Maybe knock the real damage down to 60%.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Simplicity- I'd go for that...but I'm not big on houseruling. Perhaps, in 4Ed?

Don't get me wrong- I agree that Illusion isn't handled well from a mechanics standpoint. I just don't feel that Illusion is any more difficult to play in 3Ed than in any other. Those who are attracted to the subtlety of the class still will be. Those who aren't, won't.

As for Conjurers, Psion, I think its a matter of taste. I've always enjoyed Transmuters (my favorite specialist). I think a shift away from them has less to do with teleportation being Conjuration than with 3.5 cutting durations on a lot of Transmutation's buff spells. But I still play them! For the record, Diviners are my second choice...

 

[Simplicity]

So, you'd call a spell that allows the Illusionist to mimic the effects of:

1) Sleet Storm
2) Stinking Cloud
3) Web
4) Summon Swarm
5) Glitterdust
6) Melf's Acid Arrow
7) Flame Arrow
8) Summon Monster I-III
9) Unseen Servant (which works like any other illusorily summoned creature)
10) Fog Cloud

changeable at the time of casting as useless? 12 spells for the price of 1? And you don't even have to know those spells? Essentially, that's spontaneous casting.

Yes, you're giving up a higher spell slot to mimic lesser spells, but you're also freeing up spell knowledge for your illusions, evocations, etc. By learning this single spell, the sorcerer has learned 18. Seeing as how an 8th Lvl Sorcerer knows only 18 spells (not including the 4th level slot), this is a functional doubling of his spell knowledge. That is why a Sorcerer would chose this spell- flexibility.

Sorry, no Flame Arrow. That's Transmutation.

Yes, I call it useless. Yes, giving up one of the precious 4th level slots to learn eleven 0 to 1st level spells is a really dumb idea. The summons are gimped beyond recognition. Summon Monster III acts like Summon Monster I. The attack spells require double saves usually on different stats. Stinking Cloud used to be a 2nd level spell, and it's always been a weak 3rd level spell. Web is okay, but requires constant interaction. Fog clouds are just not that useful. And every time you cast it, you're sacrificing a higher level spell slot than should be required.

 

[Orius]

Does anyone else think that now that the teleportation spells have become conjuration, and because wizards left conjuration with way too many direct damage spells, that Transmuter is no longer the specialist of choice, but Conjurer?

Yeah, conjurers have definitely become more powerful, especially when you start throwing the 3.x revisions of monster summoning into the mix. Now that they can start summoning monsters at 1st level rather than 5th, they've become far more useful, with a very good mix of offensive, defensive and utility spells.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

3Ed PHB pg 205. Flame Arrow. Conjuration.

3.5?

 

[Simplicity]

3Ed PHB pg 205. Flame Arrow. Conjuration.

3.5?

Yep. It changed in 3.5. See the 3.5 SRD. http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/SpellsF-G.rtf