Is the Illusionist Dead?

[Cerbie]

It's all DM and well, how you want to use it.

Combining illusions with other spell effects (mind-affecting, and related to the illusion--like a big fire elemental and a little ball of flame around him, plus some extras) can make for some cool stuff, but the DM has to be OK with it, and be willing to fudge and make up rules as things go to deal with it.

Pure illusions can also, work, but you still need good DM cooperation, and some real prep. If you're seen casting an illusion, and it isn't summoning of something, it might look suspicious.

Illusionists' power is often inversely proportional to the availability of magic in the game world. The lower-magic the campaign, the more power Illusionists and Enchanters weild.

Lastly, I agree with the patriotic/depressed little person, that specialist wizards aren't really given what they need, but kind of tacked on, especially Illusionists and Enchanters. The wizards of stories (except of course those set in discworld) would generally have great Charisma and Wisdom (or an extreme lack of it), with some extra Intelligence; not nerds of a campaign world.

 

[Paragon Kobold]

Wow, talk about tread necromancy. (And don't even get me started on Necromancers...)
A few things occurs to me as I read back on this tread:

Is the Illusionist more useful to the GM, than to a player?
Illusions will often work against a normal adventuring group, and they are good for
plot points, but players will all to often come up against foes that are somehow immune.

Are illusionists bad at the 'battle support' role? While the evoker is an artillery piece,
and the transmuter can make the front-liners tougher (sometimes literary), the Illusionist is
better at tricks to avoid combat, but not so useful once it starts. This may make him less of a
team player, as the rest of the party is really just in the way if you are trying to trick someone.
('Never mind the four people in armor standing behind me; look at THIS!')

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I love illusionists but I'll only play one in the right campaign with the right DM. Moreso than most of the other classes, illusionists require a DM with a good imagination who is willing (and able!) to accomodate illusion magic at any given time. Some DMs see this as a headache and nerf illusions to the point that being an illusionist is a waste of time.

 

[Captain NeMo]

Nah. they're not dead. Most people are just tired of gnomes and dashing young half-elves being the onyl ones taking up the mantle.

 

[Simplicity]

Yes, the illusionist is dead. Why? Because the guys who wrote mage spells made some dumb choices.

Silent Image and Major Image are figments. According to the rules, this means that they
do no damage. If there is something in the rules about they do temporary damage until disbelieved, please point me to it... I've been trying to find it. You could make illusionary monsters that just miss all the time, I suppose... But people will see through that pretty quickly.

Shadow Conjurations are worthless. Let's see, for a fourth level spell, I can cast a FAKE version of a 3rd level conjuration spell. WOW. That's useful. So rather than
surrounding myself with real monsters, I'm going to spend a more valuable spell to surround myself with fake monsters with 1/5th the hit points because I'm an illusionist! If someone can explain to me the use of these spells, I'd like to know that as well.

Shadow Evocation is merely okay. It's versatile, but that's about it. Once again you have to blow your high-level spell to launch a fake lower level spell.

Invisibility is gimped. Where it used to last all day so you could go into combat invisible,
now it's much shorter.

Mind-affecting stuff works, but if I wanted to do that, why didn't I become an enchanter?

 

[satori01]

I'm not sure Illusionists have ever been a really popular class, sure people confess a liking towards them, as to play a deceiver requires a great deal of panache, but I doubt many people have played them, many people like the straight forward choice.

No one ever played an Illusionist in 1e in my circle of friends, and that was when an Illusionist has its own spell list and sole access to Phantasmal Killer/Weird type spells. People I think were afraid
of being nerfed by DM interpertation, and the spell list for Illusionists did not start getting decent to mid levels. MUs at least had Burning Hands and Magic Missle, as most characters maxed out at 5th level, this played a huge part in not chosing Illusionist.

Frankly Illusions seem gimped in 3e. The role of the Illusionist seems to be how to create Illusions that accomplish some tactical goal, but are innocous enough to discourage close scrutiny or interaction, as interaction kills all illusions it seems like.

I dont recall 1e illusions being so easily dispelled.

Frankly I would like to see all specialist wizards removed as an option at first level, and replace them with prestige classes that grant focused powers and spells.

Beyond that,certain archtypes seem to me worthy of their own 20 level classes as well, necromancer, Enchanter, Illusionist all come to mind.

The funny part is I think even the designers of 3e recgonize or should recgonize they went to far in adjudicating illusions. In all the accounts of WOTC employe's or ex employe's campaigns no one plays an illusionist. I have yet to see a single Illusionist in a WOTC module.

1e TSR modules often had Illusionists, Egg of the Phoenix had an Illusionist as a BBEG of one of its chapters, and I also seem to remember dealing with Illusionist in the Beyond the Looking Glass module. Illusionists were scary opponents in 1e, something very memorable.

 

[Psion]

If your main villain is an illusionist, treat him like any other BBEG- let him prepare!

If you are posting this in response to my post, that was quite simply not the situation. The players had raided the Dark Elves' lair, and then made a bee line directly to where the dark elves were coming back from. It boiled down to who spotted who first, and it was dark elves in the daylight...

Yes, logic dictates villains should prepare... when they are able.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Silent Image, even in its current incarnation, is a classic example of why Illusionists require a subtle mind to play...or one who grew up watching Roadrunner cartoons.

I use that spell mainly to conceal openings or make walls seem to have openings. That is, its a spell that's ideal for concealing a trap or pitfall or making an alley look like a dead end (perhaps ending a few feet sooner than it should). I also use it to make openings appear in walls when being chased...ever see a bunch of guards run full speed into a solid brick wall?

So yes, you CAN cause permanent damage (and lots of it) with a figment, just not directly.

Its also useful to create an image of that 100carat emerald you just took to make it seem as if it were still there...until you obviously cannot be the culprit.

...or an image of that unmoving stoic guard you just mugged...

Um...yes, I do tend to multiclass my illusionists with rogues, why do you ask?

 

[Mouseferatu]

Hmm...

While I couldn't swear to whether it was a real rule or a house rule, I know that while playing older editions, we always ruled that illusions did damage until/unless they were disbelieved (though the damage was secretly never lethal).

I wonder how it would impact balance to bring this rule back into 3E. Maybe treat all illusion spells like the "shadow" spells--that is, they do a percentage of the damage they would normally do. However, this damage is always nonlethal damage, and as soon as someone successfully disbelieves, they are no longer subject to that damage.

On the one hand, this makes illusions a lot more potent, and might require they are nerfed in some other way in exchange. OTOH, as this thread suggests, a lot of folks feel illusions are already underpowered.

Thoughts? Opinions? Rotten fruit?

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Illusions are all about misdirection and versatility. If you're looking for damage output, you shouldn't be looking at illusionists. An illusionist can create ANY type of monster, not just those on the Summon Monster tables. Other spellcasters are limited by what the specific effects of a spell are. Illusion magic has no such limitation; you can create pretty much whatever you want. A fireball spell just lets create a ball of fire; illusions can make that ball a meteor shower or rain or whatever. That's where the creativity comes into play...