D&D General Is there a D&D setting that actually works how it would with access to D&D magic?

[Rogerd1]

the Tippyverse.

Hell no!

 

[Scruffy nerf herder]

I think 5e’s bounded accuracy models what makes sense quite well in this case. A low level caster (and even higher level casters to a lesser extent) can absolutely be killed by villagers.

Having a laser gun only increases the amount of crappy behavior you need to engage in to get murdered by the people you’re being crappy to. I think in a pessimistically designed world where this happens sometimes, where some people have laser guns built into their fingers, it’s just culturally acceptable to kill said people at the first sign of getting notions.

Lol why world build in such a way that you can't present more and different interesting villains for them to contend with?

 

[Vaalingrade]

I think 5e’s bounded accuracy models what makes sense quite well in this case. A low level caster (and even higher level casters to a lesser extent) can absolutely be killed by villagers.

Bounded Accuracy makes sure no one is special or present an insurmountable threat unless they're a monster with esoteric defenses. Otherwise enough chumps can zerg down Sauron himself.

 

[James Gasik]

That's not technically true. With enemy DC scaling for special abilities and spells, higher level opponents can have powers that some people simply can't save against. I remember the first time I saw this in action during Storm King's Thunder- we had to fight a dragon with a DC 19 fear aura, and one poor sap who had a 9 Wisdom could only save on a natural 20. And then I realized DC's totally can get to 20 or 21...to the point that lacking proficiency or an immunity (thank you, Heroes' Feast!), there are characters who even a natural 20 cannot save.

 

[Voadam]

I only included the spellcasters of Hommlet, but if we're counting all NPC's with class levels...

Now the Forgotten Realms has examples of this, starting with the most infamous, Shadowdale, which has a Fighter 6, a Thief 6, a Wizard 26, a Cleric 7, a Cleric 9, a Cleric 1, a Fighter 4, Fighter 12, Bard 18, Fighter 5 (deceased), tower officers who are all Fighter 2, Bard 9, Ranger 12, Ranger 10, Cleric 7, Ranger 6, Thief 7. and a Fighter 2/Wizard 22 (deceased).

Then moving to Tilverton, we have a Fighter 9, a garrison of 450 knights (a typical patrol of which are 40 Fighter 3's and 4's, commanded by a Fighter 6 or 7, who ride with 1-3 Wizards of levels 2-5. Foot patrols on the streets consist of 10-20 Fighter 3's and 1-2 Wizards of levels 2-5. The town also has a Wizard 9, a Wizard 12, a Cleric 12, 70+ Thieves of levels 2-5, and 3-12 Fighters of levels 3-10. There's also a Wizard 3 and a Thief 7, we also have a Wizard 6, a Wizard 7, a Bard 8, and a Bard 9. a Ranger 9, two Fighter 6's, and a Thief 3.

It looks like these numbers are from Forgotten Realms Adventures though I can't seem to find the Fighter 2/Wizard 22 in Shadowdale. Is that correct?

 

[James Gasik]

Those are the stats for Sylune Silverhand. And yes, my source is Forgotten Realms Adventures.

 

[Flamestrike]

Yes, one level higher than the random settlement generator chart.

So I would not say "The numbers of spellcasters is far higher that that chart suggests"

Yes, I read and copied over the settlement statblock including the important NPCs which listed the highest level casters and did not search the entire description so I missed the 5th level druid not listed in the stat block.

So yes 3 stated NPC casters. And the random generators would indicate a couple lower level ones as well.

Sure. That is consistent with the high magic default of 3.5 and mostly within the default charts (randomly generated 1000 person adult population small towns get max caster level of 1-4 so no 3rd level spells and mostly no 2nd level ones).

A few quibbles exist as to whether augury can usefully predict the future given the failure chances and limited scope, create water's instantaneous "downpour" of gallons would be considered rain, and the efficacy of the save negate's zone of truth's ability to solve most crimes.

This is however far from:

"Even a village of 100 or so has a wizard or sorcerer or two, a druid and a few clerics. Every town of 1000 or so has an archmage, and several lower level spellcasters, and cities of 10,000 or more have literally several archmages, dozens of powerful clerics to several Gods (and their clerical followers), druids, bards and you name it."

According to the charts a randomly generated small town of 1,000 would have a max of 4th level casters not archmages, and a small city of 10,000 would have max 10th level casters, not literally several archmages.

Looking at the first 3.5 module I pulled out the intro small town exceeds those numbers by one level, so fairly consistent with the high level default of the 3.5 DMG, but a little higher level on the casters. But still way below an Elminster in every Dale.

Moving on to page 9 of Red Hand of Doom there is the small city of Brindol with a little less than 10,000 but in the same population category population range as a 10,000 adult population small city:

Brindol (Small City): Conventional, nonstandard; AL NG, LE; 15,000 gp limit; Assets 6,300,000 gp; Population 8,400; Mixed (81% human, 8% halfl ing, 5% dwarf, 3% half-orc, 2% gnome, 1% elf).
Authority Figures: Lord Kerden Jarmaath (NG male human fighter 8), Lord of Brindol; Lady Verrasa Kaal (LE female human rogue 9), leader of mercantile House Kaal, to whom everyone seems to owe money or favors.
Important Characters: Captain Lars Ulverth (LG male human fighter 7), leader of the Lion Guard; Immerstal the Red (CG male human wizard 9), foremost wizard of the town; Rillor Paln (NE male human rogue 11), master of the Black Knives, a gang of highwaymen and cutthroats based in Brindol and secretly allied with House Kaal; Eldremma Axenhaft (LN female dwarf fighter 4/rogue 3), a merchant and provisioner who hires mercenaries out as caravan guards; Shining Servant Tredora Goldenbrow (LG female aasimar cleric 8 of Pelor), most prominent cleric in town.

So consistent with the 3.0/3.5 DMG random population guidelines of max 10th level casters.

Individual level 8 and 9 casters are fairly amazing, but still not at the level of literally several archmages.

Another city not in either Faerun or Greyhawk (but nonetheless a small city where several people can teleport, provide instantaneous communication, create objects from nothing, predict the future, maintain crops 24/7 365 days per year, create AI, employ undead labor 24/7, regenerate limbs, cure all diseases and raise the dead).

How about a city in an actual campaign world (which is what we're talking about here) Lets start with Berdusk? It's a small city in Faerun, with a population of 20,000.

Notable inhabitants include:

Darthlene (an Archlich Wizard 19)
Uluene Maertalar (High priestess of Milil, Cleric 16)
Cylria Dragonborn (Bard 10/ Harper 4/ Fighter 3) with a ring of three wishes
Joelle Emmeline (Heartwarder of Sune, a Paragon path/ 3E Prestige class)
Tathlosar Brimmerbold (an 18th level Fighter)
Obslin Minstrelwish and Belhuar Thantarth (both Bard 9)
Bransuldyn Mirrortor (Gnome Cleric of Oghma 9)
Sheenra Duuth (14th level Rogue)
Shambarin (Wizard 14/ Rogue 7)
Bran Skorlsun (Ranger 17)
Eather Heilean (Paladin 7/ Harper paragon 10)

Do you want me to provide a list of what a 19th level Wizard (and a 14th level Wizard), 16th level Cleric (and a 9th level Cleric), 14th level Bard (and 2 x 9th level Bards) and an (effective) 17th level Paladin can do?

And they're just the named NPCs. There would be dozens more Bards in the bard college there, several Wizards and Sorcerers, multiple lower level Clerics to Oghma and Milil (the main deities) and Torm/ Helm (who also have a presence), plus a handfull of Paladins and Rangers also capable of casting spells.

When we get to a population of 40,000 (twice this size) in Faerun we're in Baldurs Gate territory and that joint has several Archmages (or the equivalent) and high priests in the low to high teens level range for several churches.

 

[Flamestrike]

I can't seem to find the Fighter 2/Wizard 22 in Shadowdale. Is that correct?

Elminster.

 

[James Gasik]

No, Elminster is the Wizard 26. This predates the Elminster novels where he decided to dabble in every known class, get a special "Chosen of Mystra" template, and wield silver fire- but definitely after Ed claimed he has psionic abilities. : )

Also in a few years, his level would rise to something like 29 anyways, as only the Simbul was a better magician at Wizard 30...as far as I can recall.

 

[Flamestrike]

I also have a 3.5 Forgotten Realms module with a settlement stat block: Cormyr: Tearing of the Weave.

Page 148:

The bustling city of Wheloon confidently straddles the two most important trade routes in eastern Cormyr. Merchant caravans traveling to Sembia pass through each day along the Way of the Manticore, and ships from ports all over the Sea of Fallen Stars sail up the Wyvernflow to unload their goods at Wheloon or pass on into the heart of Cormyr. The rumble of wagon wheels, grunting of laborers, and hollering of dock hands fills the air for much of the day and long into the night.

Wheloon
Wheloon (Small City): Conventional; Al NG; 15,000 gp limit; Assets 499,500 gp; Population 6,692; Mixed (human 82%, halfling 6%, dwarf 4%, gnome 4%, half-elf 2%, elf 1%, half-orc 1%).
Authority Figure: Lord Sarp Redbeard (NG male Chondathan human fighter 9), lord of the city.
Important Characters: Orlenstar Thirthorn (N male Chondathan human druid 4), caretaker of God’s Grove, a shrine to Silvanus; Katriana Donohar (NG female Tethyrian human cleric 5), leader of the Harvest Hall, a temple to Chauntea, since the death of her father Harrandave Donohar; Constal Maximanus Tholl (LG male Chondathan human fighter 5), leader of the local contingent of Purple Dragons.

Good thing he's dead, because he was a 16th level Cleric, along with his good friend Roond Asmyrk who was also a 16th level Cleric (of Sune) and who owns a local tavern in Welhoon (and is still alive AFAICT).

There is also:

Elarue Estpirit (7th level Ranger)
Deinyn Fembrys (5th level Cleric of Shar)
Naedaenya Arthas (6th level Cleric of Shar)
Shan Thar (Cleric 3, Cyric)
Albhaera Haerldoun (Wizard 6)
Orlenstar Thirlthorn (Druid 4)
Kevrin (Sorcerer 1)
Landon Bhentyl (Wizard 2)
Nym Nindar (Bard 1)
Zendoras Ralagar (Fighter 2/ Wizard 1)

Inhabitants of Wheloon

Most named Welhoonians there are low to mid level Fighters, and the town appears to have little in the way of Arcane casters. It seems a bit of an outlier.