Is there a new standard for the "Large and In Charge" feat?

[Ridley's Cohort]

I am not particularly worried about the Fighter going up against LaiC. The Barbarian is in big trouble because he will lack the AC to avoid the AoO and is unlikely to have Spring Attack.

The main problem with feat power creep is that it can be very hard on any character class that dares share the same stage as a Fighter.

 

[Korak]

My point about Hold the Line combined with Large and in charge is this.

Large and In Charge lets you stop your opponent when they move inside your threatened area. For example with our Half-Ogre with 10 ft reach, an opponent that moves from a square 10 ft away to an adjacent square in relation to the ogre would provoke an AoO. L&IC would enable the Ogre to keep the opponent 10 ft away.

Now combine it with Hold the Line. Hold the line reads (You may make an AoO vs a charging opponent who enters an area you threaten. Your AoO happens immediately before the charge is resolved). Now the Ogre gets an AoO when his opponent is moving from 15 ft away into the square that is 10 ft away. L&IC lets you knock them into the square that the opponent was before the AoO. So the fighter is left high and dry 15 ft away. That is why you combine the two together. I agree that L&IC is far better; combination is the emphasis here

Sorry man, it doesn't work that way. Large and in Charge only applies to AoOs cause by movement inside the creatures threatened area. That means that the AoO from Hold the Line which occurs from the 15'-10' range and is not eligible for the benefit of Large and in Charge. Normally, movement counts as a single trigger and cannot incur more than one AoO per opponent. However, a case could be made that these two feats constitute an exception and that the large creature would be entitled to a second AoO as the charger passes from 10'-5'. I disagree, and I would not allow this (2 AoOs).

So, by my reading, the large creature (with both feats) has to chose between taking the Hold the Line AoO at 15'-10' or taking the Large and in Charge AoO at 10'-5'. If the opponent is a medium size creature with a reach weapon, there is the benefit of still getting an AoO where there wouldn't be without Hold the Line. However, if the opponent is medium sized without reach, Large and In Charge makes more sense to keep the oponent at 10' range and deny them their attack.

And... sorry I missed your joke. I know constant effect enlarge person items is a mistake you won't make again .

 

[Zack2216]

standstill from the EPH.

 

[Darklone]

Thanks for that half-ogre progression thingie, sonofapreacherman!

 

[Vuron]

Large and In Charge is an extremely useful feat for some types of monsters to utilize but I also wonder how common it's going to be in the standard course of play.

The most common creatures that are going to have it are some of the brute force monsters like Giants and Dragon types. Most of the monstrous humanoids, magical beats and abberations who can benefit from it are more likely to take something that benefits thier special attacks or defenses than a limited utility general feat.

Most Ogres are unlikely to take this feat as in general it's more useful for them to invest in Power Attack and Weapon Focus. It's really the trolls and weaker giants that this feat really becomes worthwhile taking while the cloud and storm are more likely to take alternate feats.

For dragons most of the other draconic feats are arguably more useful in a wider range of attack situations than large and in charge so I think it will be a rare dragon with this feat.