Is there a Relationship between Game Lethality and Role Play?

[Ginnel]

I've been diving into some new RPG's of late. Not playing them, yet, but reading them. One thing I've noticed is an underlying assumption (and sometimes not so underlying) that if you ramp up the lethality of combat, and make recovery from damage much more difficult, you will reduce the level of violence in your game. As a corollary of this, the presumption seems to be that players will role play more as they actively work to avoid combat.

Do you think this bears fruit in play? Can you push players to role play by simply making combat so unappealing that they won't have a choice?

Hmm I don't think your question is correct, what you seem to explain in your post is "Is there a Relationship between Game Lethality and non violent solutions?"

If you're roleplaying a group of hot headed aggressive types then going into combat is roleplaying.
Roleplaying to me is doing what your character would do, if that involves talking a lot fine, if it involves fighting a lot fine, although you should choose to play characters that fit the style of game that your DM is saying he's going to run.

But does a Highly Lethal game promote roleplaying as I define it, no I don't think so the only thing that helps that is a DM and other players who encourage it.
Does a highly lethal game promote non violent solutions, I don't think so unless the DM explains to the players that the system is a highly lethal one and they should probably choose to play characters who are less hot headed and more diplomatic.

 

[ExploderWizard]

It really all comes down to the desires of the players and what they want out of the whole experience. If players are looking for lighthearted mayhem without an undue amount of heavy lifting for the brain, then an overly lethal combat system defeats the entire purpose of playing (for this particular group).

If the players enjoy problem solving that requires thinking and planning, then a more lethal systems can work for them, provided the lethality cuts both ways. If the system rewards intelligent planning and rewards such activity with a swift decisive victory in combat then the players may not mind less overall combat in the game. The real victories in these games will be the formulation of winning strategies whether they are violent or not.

I think player satisfaction has more to do with roleplaying than lethality. A player in a game that requires a degree of effort to construct a character might become frustrated with a high mortality rate. If more time is spent preparing characters rather than playing them then player satisfaction might be rather low. Games that feature a much lower investment of time for character creation may be able to sustain a high mortality rate while maintaining player satisfaction.

 

[Leatherhead]

Do you think this bears fruit in play? Can you push players to role play by simply making combat so unappealing that they won't have a choice?

Nope.

I find that making games more lethal encourages metagaming, and also promotes strategic combat instead of tactical combat. At a basic level, you are changing from wargaming to "puzzlegaming." Puzzlegaming is fun, but it arguably has even less RP than a hack-and-slash game, because it challenges the players ability to plan ahead rather than their characters ability to react.

If you are unsure of what I mean by "puzzlegaming," just think of 10' 12' collapsible poles.

 

[Jack7]

So, yes. It causes them to pick their battles, and to talk to a lot of things/people (snake dudes, slavers, evil spellcasters, etc.) that you might not talk to in other games. I like throwing strange propositions and moral dilemmas at my party, and they like charting their way through such things, so that works well for us.

I concur.

 

[Dyson Logos]

Edited for clarity:

Highly lethal combat may work both ways - it may encourage roleplaying, but it may also hurt it.

It encourages roleplaying because combat cannot be taken lightly.

It hurts roleplaying, because the risk of PCs death forces players to think a lot about weapons, armors, effective builds and combat tactics

BINGO.

A deadly combat system can result in people spending way more time dealing with combat than they usually would. I'm looking at Cyberpunk as I say this.

 

[Piratecat]

I've seen deadly combat discourage people from roleplaying as well; the theory is "if I'm going to get killed, why build a character background and personality, and why get attached to him?"

My friend who had a beloved archer character in Warhammer comes to mind; he was pretty annoyed when the archer had his arm gnawed off on a crit. Funny, but also kind of sad.

 

[Crothian]

It is going to be hit and miss and I imagine drive people towards the extremes either direction. Or and I've seen this in CoC games, they just stop caring about the game because they know everyone is going to die.

 

[Clavis]

I can say that in my experience high-lethality systems (such as Classic D&D and Call of Chthulhu) do encourage role-playing because players must find non-combat solutions to problems. In Call of Cthulhu this seems intentional, while in Classic D&D I thinks it's an unintentional side-effect of low-level play. Of course, Classic D&D gets a lot less lethal past 4th level.

It might not be simply the lethality of a system that's the deciding factor, however. I also think complex, highly tactical combat systems discourage role-playing, because brainpower that might otherwise be devoted to role-playing must be diverted to considering combat options. Long combats also discourage role-playing, in my experience, because they leave less time available at the table for interaction with NPCs.

 

[Particle_Man]

Would Paranoia be a counter-example?

 

[maddman75]

Depends what you mean by roleplay. I've seen people refer to basically everything that isn't combat as "roleplaying".

To me, lethality does not increase roleplay. It decreases cinematic play. That is, the players are not going to be likely to try crazy, dangerous stunts. They're going to be cautious and plan everything out carefully. If its less lethal they'll fly more by the seat of their pants.

To encourage roleplay, you need to push conflicts at them, whether the game is lethal or not.