Is there anything wrong with a Combat Character

[hong]

In D&D, characters HAVE to be combat characters - to a degree. Even bards need to kill things to level up (or at least participate and aid those doing the killing).

What I don't like as a DM is when players completely borg out their characters, but then say something like "the low CHA score is for roleplaying".

The solution is then to give out incentives for these players to take high Cha for the purpose of killing things. This is not hard.

Case in point... my friend is doing a single player campaign... and told me how his character was able to charge and kill a large demon (I think one step below a Belor... don't remember what type) in one hit... it had 95 HP. He created a Mercurial Great Sword weilding death machine that you could never role play because he's so over the top.

Perhaps _you_ could never roleplay him, due perhaps to terminal lack of imagination, but that's your problem, not his. Buttkicking potential is orthogonal to character depth.

 

[Zhure]

:golf clap @ orthogonal:

 

[shilsen]

I don't see any necessary distinction between a combat character and a well-roleplayed one. Every PC in our group kicks major butt. And each is a well-delineated individual, with distinct traits, quirks and mannerisms, and is consistently roleplayed. D&D is a roleplaying game geared for combat. There's no reason why either aspect needs to be inimical to the other.

 

[Tharkun]

No...

I think it's all on how you want to play the game as there is no "right" or "wrong" way to play the game.

 

[Umbran]

I have no problem with combat characters. I play them myself, when the game calls for it. What I do have a problem with is false logic...

Today, most of the rules are focused on the fair adjudication of combat

To steal a phrase from The Princess Bride - People keep using those words. I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

The amount of page space and verbiage used for combat rules does not mean much of anything. Humans are pretty good and modelling and simulating physical situations. We are notoriously bad at writing rules for mental and social situations. We've got a preponderance of rules for combat because that is the most complicated physical situation commonly found in the game for which we can manage rules.

If we could manage to write complex rules for social situations that players found engaging and interesting to play under, we would. But, as of the moment we cannot. We gamers can't even agree on the general positioning of the line between the character's mental and social abilities and the player's (how to deal with a high-charisma player running a low-charisma character, or vice versa).

So, having lots of rules for combat doesn't mean combat is the focus of the game. It means that's the part of the game for which it is reasonable to have rules. It is more reasonable to leave other parts of the game in the DM's hands.

 

[bwgwl]

hey guys, can we cut down on the vocabulary a little?

orthogonal, inimical, now verbiage... yer all giving me a headache...

 

[buzzard]

Re: Re: Is there anything wrong with a Combat Character

So, having lots of rules for combat doesn't mean combat is the focus of the game. It means that's the part of the game for which it is reasonable to have rules. It is more reasonable to leave other parts of the game in the DM's hands.

While your argument has some merit, I believe you are still wrong. How would I determine if the game is focused on combat or social interaction? Look at the adventures.

The WoTC modules, Citadel to Bastion are pretty well combat focused. The vast majority of 3rd party adventures are combat focused (the samples I have seen at least). The majority of LG encounters are combat focused (though there is always some roleplay). Thus, if we analyse on the basis of what people actually play, I'd have to say that the game is combat focused. Now I understand that premade adventures are not everything, but it is the only metric we have to work with which is not hearsay.

buzzard

 

[Umbran]

Re: Re: Re: Is there anything wrong with a Combat Character

Thus, if we analyse on the basis of what people actually play, I'd have to say that the game is combat focused. Now I understand that premade adventures are not everything, but it is the only metric we have to work with which is not hearsay.

Hm. Flaws...

First, being the only metric that is not hearsay does not render that metric accurate or meaningful.

Second, and more importantly, you provide no evidence to support that premade adventures are "what people actually play". This contention remains hearsay, and thus so does the metric.

If published adventures don't comprise the bulk of D&D play, their focus is meaningless in determining "the focus of the game". WotC market research suggests there's something like a couple million gamers in the US. If published stuff represented most of what they were playing, that sould translate into many tens to hundreds of thousands of modules sold.

Oddly, though, WotC says that modules don't sell well enough to be profitable. Even the smaller third-party publishers tend to create more rulebooks than adventures. How is it that so many gamers are playing so few modules?

Obviously, they're writing their own adventures. Which means the only meaningful statement of "what the game is about" is that it is about what an individual group wants it to be about.

 

[Zappo]

Umbran, anyone who maintains that the pagecount of any given section has no relation to the game's focus gets my full thumbs up.

Can you imagine a game with 40 pages of rules for social interaction? Ewwwwwwww!!! "Nah, don't bother talking, just use the special ability of the Psychiatrist class: roll Persuade and add this, this, and this modifier, beat DC 28, and you'll lower his self-esteem level to 12, which gives him a -2 to Charisma..."

 

[Angcuru]

Well, consider this. No matter how full of role-play this game is, there is always going to be combat. While the other characters are busy laughing it up with the nobles, you get to take the credit for mowing down all of the villains! Happy Happy Joy Joy!