Is There Possibility of a PF1.5 or a 3.5 Revival? Whether Directly or Something With Similar 'Ethos'

Answering the OP question: No, not really. The market for people who want a version of 3.0/3.5 that is not PF1 and is not 4E and is not PF2 and is not 5E is essentially people who have been playing 3.0 / 3.5 for decades and have a list of changes they'd like to see, but generally like it.

And those lists are not overwhelmingly similar, so house-ruling 3.0 / 3.5 seems the best plan.

I honestly cannot think how I'd see 3.0 / 3.5 to any new D&D player nowadays. I'd generally suggest they start playing 13A if they like a more lose and fun experience, PF2 if they enjoy complex boardgames or wargames, and 5E if they want to be able to play with as many people as possible. If they get bored with the limited options 5E/13A give you, I'd suggest PF2 for "somewhat more of a strategic combat feel" or 4E for a "very strategic combat feel".

Finding it hard to see where I'd suggest 3.0/3.5/PF1 to anyone in that progression
 

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Thanks for the detailed reply.

But this

makes me sad. I think the 3.0 PrCs are the best part of that game. I mean, not the combat monster broken ones, but the ones that are part of the setting and are there to talk about the character's place in the world.

One of these days I am going to bring them back to 5E.

I love the idea of PrC's as Monte Cook outlined them, as being representatives of secret orders within his culture and a way of establishing complex cultural ideas and giving players a sense of attachment to the world. The trouble is that PrC's that did that largely did not exist and were largely never published.

Instead, PrC's became a whole of bunch of different competing ideas fulfilling a bunch of different theoretical roles, but largely printed as filler content to ensure each book would meet the brand manager's desire that all books be both player and DM books (to encourage players to buy more books for CharOp reasons). Gradually, the PrCs started looking more and more like "push cards" in MtG sets, where the brand manager knew the cards were under costed in order to push them into the forefront of the meta and encourage excited purchases because of the power creep.

But in terms of purpose in the game they were all over the place. Some of them existed to fix holes in the class design (such as Paladins only being good or Barbarians only being chaotic wilderness dwellers). Some of them existed to fix holes in the multiclassing (multiclassing into a spellcasting class is never good because the lost caster levels are never as good as the marginal increases in skills or BAB). Some of them existed to fix holes in the Feat trees where the feat trees didn't provide for a particular concept or where the concept would have been weak and unattractive without a power boost. Originally, they weren't necessarily better than standard classes, but a lot of them ended up being basically a base class plus a bonus feat every level which was strictly better than base classes while breaking the games design since instead of choosing like a feat you were locked into a rigid progression. But the worst thing they did was exempt PrCs from the multiclassing mechanics, which mean that what they became in practice was overpowered feat selection. Most of them were very front loaded to do their thing, and as the number of PrCs increased more and more of them had the same focus - multiple PrCs for archers for example. So you could select a PrC like a powerful feat, and stack more and more bonuses to the same action on the character. This was at its worst when the base class being modified was already Tier 1 and the thing it was doing was already powerful.

I can't imagine me bringing them back because I consider them the worst thing about 3e and the source of 50% of people's trouble with 3.5e (much of the rest is OP spells and badly designed saving throw scaling). But if I did bring them back I'd make the requirements for getting into them so harsh that no one would be able to plan a build around them and I would not exempt them from the multiclassing restrictions. So for example, I could imagine a PrC like, "Dynastic Ruler" whose requirements were you must become a sovereign by your own hand and produce a legitimate heir before you could take levels in the class. A lot of that overlaps my own ideas for "Epic" level play that I've never really written down because I can't imagine me running a game that makes it to 20th level.

One of my own players who came from a 3.5 background felt something like you did until he played with my rules a while and one day he'd been making characters on his own (because he loved designing characters), and his eyes were bright and he said, "I just figured it out. Under your rules, characters don't take prestige classes, they become prestige classes." That's basically the idea.
 

I think the 3.0 PrCs are the best part of that game. I mean, not the combat monster broken ones, but the ones that are part of the setting and are there to talk about the character's place in the world.
Prestige classes are a great concept poorly realized. I think they might have worked better as feats exclusive to those organizations, perhaps together with the rules from PHB2 or DMG2 (can't recall right now which) about renown with various organizations that would unlock certain abilities.
 

Prestige classes are a great concept poorly realized. I think they might have worked better as feats exclusive to those organizations, perhaps together with the rules from PHB2 or DMG2 (can't recall right now which) about renown with various organizations that would unlock certain abilities.
Paizo did a lot of work to make them better and closer suited to their original purpose. I think under the lens of specific archetypes and restrictive entrance is fine for a theoretical 5E prestige class, waiting for level 20 or higher is an awful idea.
 

My desire for D&D is for character progression avenues to be:

1) diegetic (tied into specific functionality within the fiction, and character knowable within the fiction)
2) randomized/roguelike
3) transformational. 2 and 3 are so character growth is a function of discovery, and not preplanned.

PrCs work well for this as long as their creation is tied into fictional positioning requirements, and those requirements are discovered during play.
 

Paizo did a lot of work to make them better and closer suited to their original purpose. I think under the lens of specific archetypes and restrictive entrance is fine for a theoretical 5E prestige class, waiting for level 20 or higher is an awful idea.
Well, that and acting as a patch for certain multiclass combinations. Here's looking at you, mystic theurge.
 

Prestige classes are a great concept poorly realized. I think they might have worked better as feats exclusive to those organizations, perhaps together with the rules from PHB2 or DMG2 (can't recall right now which) about renown with various organizations that would unlock certain abilities.
We made a bunch of bespoke ones for my campaign world. They work fine. I think people are unfairly only remembering chain fighters and other garbage.
 

Well, that and acting as a patch for certain multiclass combinations. Here's looking at you, mystic theurge.
I know casters and multiclassing in 3E was touchy, but I saw the trade offs as a feature. Patching caster MC with prestige classing was totally acceptable to me.
 

I mean specifically. I am hoping for someone to.say what they think would be a good evolution of 3.0 that was not 3.5 and therefore also not PF.

I think I understand what folks might want in a continuation of PF that wasn't so divergent as PF2, though.
I mean, if I had my druthers it would look like:
  • More detailed skills that scaled better/faster to appropriately high leveled actions
  • Consolidating later skill usages into the base skill system
  • Universalized spell DC scaling (scaling DC with spell level was a bad idea, I'm less sold than Celebrim on decreasing spell accuracy generally at higher levels)
  • Cut back on BAB attack penalties (I think you'd be fine with -5/-5/-5 instead of -5/-10/-15)
  • Shorter, tiered classes (I'd make them all about 5 levels long)
  • Lean harder into the plethora of class specific subsystems we saw in late 3.5, with lots of different resource systems
Fundamentally, I think the the most important 3e design ideal is NPC/PC transparency and mechanical points of interaction. 3e expects a rule for everything, and that everything important will have a rule, and that these rules should be player facing.
 

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