Is there really any way to make June?

[Ranger REG]

OK. Presume WotC has ten thousand printers and they need to print two million PHs, half a million DMGs, and one million MMs.

How can there be more MMs than DMGs? They should be about the same quantity each, assume you're using the benchmark of a typical gaming group of five (4 players +1 DM).

 

[RigaMortus2]

IMXP, books aren't very often pushed back. Sure it happens, but not as often as video games are pushed back. Which will just go on to prove, if 4E is pushed back, it really is going to be more like a video game

 

[Traycor]

Only super-rich companies like Blizzard Entertainment can just say "when it's ready".

Actually Blizzard got bought out by Vivendi because WoW nearly bankrupt Blizz in the development phase. For al the flak Blizzard gets, I have to give them respect in this area. They said "When it's ready" because they were committed to it even when they didn't have the money to back it up. That takes a lot of guts.

So more to the point... WotC could say "When it's ready" if they wanted to. It would just be a hard stance to back up and they probably have no desire to fight that battle.

 

[The Little Raven]

Actually Blizzard got bought out by Vivendi because WoW nearly bankrupt Blizz in the development phase.

Blizzard has been owned by other companies since 1994. They changed hands a number of times before coming into Vivendi's in 1998, well before WoW was spun off from Warcraft 3's development.

 

[Goobermunch]

So they are still saying they're gong to deliver all three core books in June even though other designers are saying the core books are "in constant flux"? It sounds like they are still working on the core mechanics and classes. I worked in publishing and 7 months before you're supposed to land in stores isn't a happy time to not be well into the copyediting stage. Bets on when they are really going to hit stores?

First, we don't have an idea of what "constant flux" means. It could mean that they're considering a d12 mechanic. It could mean that they cannot decided whether the Purple Albatross school of feats will have 12 feats with each giving a progressive +1 to Dex Attack Bonus or whether there will only be 4 feats in the school giving a progressive +2 Dex Attack Bonus but giving your allies the ability to shoot silly string on Tuesdays in months that end in "y" (of course, then you've got to decide whether the Purple Albatross powers infringe on the Tourmaline Spider's role as the primary source of silly string related powers, but that's a discussion for another thread).

If it's the first, there's no way it'll be ready by April (an arbitrary but realistic sounding date for the books to be off to the printers chosen because we have no idea about WotC's current arrangements for the production of 4e). If it's the second, I'm not too worried. There's only so much futzing you can do with a mechanic you've already established. You've just got to get the feedback from your testers about which option is more fun (and how badly that option makes the Tourmaline Spider Monk look).

The other factor we're not aware of is how WotC has geared up for publishing this beast! I know several people who work at publishing companies. Some of them look at a project due to the printer in six months with the kind of soul rattling horror that you only discover when you realize you registered for Calculus III at the beginning of the semester and have conveniently forgotten that fact for the past four months. Others look at projects due in two months and say, "Well, it's crunch time. Glad we've got 24 other copy editors on this project."

Without knowing the actual status of each of these issues, we're in no position to be deciding whether WotC can make it or not. On the one hand, they may be truly borked. On the other, they may be right where they want to be. On the third hand, (gotta love those Tourmaline Spider Monk powers) they may even be a little ahead of their schedule. But at the end of the day, we lack sufficient information to decide whether the sky really is falling.

Just my 2cp.

--G

 

[mxyzplk]

First, we don't have an idea of what "constant flux" means.

Well, I think we do from the meager reports we've been getting in. "Wizards use orb/staff/wand to source their powers now! Oh, no they don't." Playtest reports keep noting specific changes from game session to game session as well. So I think we have a good general idea of how much change there is at this point, and I also think we have a good idea of what their staffing is like and how they're split up.

 

[Sammael]

How can there be more MMs than DMGs? They should be about the same quantity each, assume you're using the benchmark of a typical gaming group of five (4 players +1 DM).

I know a fair number of players who buy the MMs because they want to know creature stats in advance. On the other hand, few players buyer with the DMG. Such is life.

 

[Goobermunch]

Well, I think we do from the meager reports we've been getting in. "Wizards use orb/staff/wand to source their powers now! Oh, no they don't." Playtest reports keep noting specific changes from game session to game session as well. So I think we have a good general idea of how much change there is at this point, and I also think we have a good idea of what their staffing is like and how they're split up.

But the whole wands, staffs, orbs thing was from September. Yes, it changed. Now, instead of needing implements for every spell, you get powers depending on your implement specialization. That doesn't sound like a major mechanical revision. It sounds like a minor tweak.

We also heard that a few powers were too good when used in concert. So they're working on a way to adjust those two powers. From a design standpoint, however, it's not like they've decided to add an additional three races and two classes.

They're tweaking things. They're not rewriting major aspects of the game.

And we have no idea what their production staff (rather than design staff) looks like. We have no idea how many printing presses they've got available. We can't tell what's going on with their shipping department. That's because nothing has been said about that aspect of the launch.

If things are as bad as you suspect, WotC will have to own up to it soon. They'll need to do that because they've got people's expectations riding on a June release date, and it's much better to move that date early on than to wait until the end of April to say "oops, we can't get it done." Nothing we've heard from the designers suggests that they're in that kind of bind yet. Until they start getting panicked, we should probably remain calm and give them the benefit of the doubt.

The more we let ourselves get worried, the more sour the tone of the boards becomes.

--G

 

[Agamon]

The more we let ourselves get worried, the more sour the tone of the boards becomes.

Yep. Too little information plus the inevitable speculation equals panic.

 

[DM_Blake]

My theory is, they will hit June no matter what.

If they don't think they're ready for the printer, then they'll trim stuff out and put it into the next set of books a year later.