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Pathfinder 1E Is there something special to Pathfinder?
- Thread starter Minsc
- Start date
Rod Staffwand
aka Ermlaspur Flormbator
Lots of fiddly PC options and bumps for the players. Lots of adventure paths for DMs. Lots of art and maps and cards and toys for everyone.
The rules, though, the rules are garbage.
The rules, though, the rules are garbage.
I think this is a big part of it. Paizo is a company that re-invented itself after losing multiple products/magazines that would have shuttered most others. They had Star Wars Insider, Ran the Star Wars fan club, published Dungeon and Dragon magazine, lost them all, and managed to come out beating D&D during the 4e era.
One of my big concerns is they now have a really good version of D&D to compete with and their release cycle is still pretty good, I think they're going to hit a saturation point where they are releasing books that will be less and less interesting. Erik Mona said a long time ago that he didn't want to just put out books for Pathfinder that copy what WOTC did with 3.0/3.5 and I think they're getting close to putting out "The Wizard's Complete Guide of Familiar's Familiar of Golarion". It's going to be interesting to see what Pathfinder Unchained has in it, a lot of fans are comparing it to 3.5's Book of Nine Swords, while others call it a Pathfinder 1.5 or playtest to 2.0.
It's going to be very interesting to see how they re-invent themselves this time!
Dramar
delericho
Legend
I've given up trying to predict what Paizo will do. Given their track record, whatever they announce will be the last thing I expect, I'll hate the very thought of it, and it will then turn out to be awesome.
In my opinion, Pathfinder's popularity has several causes. Among them:
1. The setting and adventure material is really, really well done.
2. Instead of trying to put the genie back in the bottle via the GSL, Paizo embraced the OGL. As a result, there are a lot more small companies doing stuff that would arguably be "too niche" for Paizo.
3. Paizo is very supportive of varying play styles. You can go all dead-tree, you can go all digital, you can do a mix. It's up to you.
4. Paizo has have some really clever products (pawns, flip-mats) that work with other systems.
5. Fairly or not, WotC really pissed a lot of people off with their 4E marketing. I believe that drove a number of people to Pathfinder.
1. The setting and adventure material is really, really well done.
2. Instead of trying to put the genie back in the bottle via the GSL, Paizo embraced the OGL. As a result, there are a lot more small companies doing stuff that would arguably be "too niche" for Paizo.
3. Paizo is very supportive of varying play styles. You can go all dead-tree, you can go all digital, you can do a mix. It's up to you.
4. Paizo has have some really clever products (pawns, flip-mats) that work with other systems.
5. Fairly or not, WotC really pissed a lot of people off with their 4E marketing. I believe that drove a number of people to Pathfinder.
I'm not certain they quite realize the need for re-invention (though like you, I do).
Personally, I would love to see them release a 2nd edition of Pathfinder that tackles some of the mechanical problems they inherited from 3.5, but I can see why they might be hesitant to go there.
Aura
Explorer
There are tons of good things and a fair number of problems with Pathfinder. A few opinions on both sides of the matter:
- Pathfinder gets CHARACTERS. The first thing anyone does in an RPG is get to know their character, whether it is by assignment or by creation. And that character has to be interesting. They take the basics, open it up with options, and let.
- Pathfinder provides lots of support, most notably in the form of rather playable adventures. The people at Paizo are practiced in Adventure-fu, and it shows.
On the flip side...
- Pathfinder is complex, and by virtue of that (and the options mentioned under characters), a bit on the abusable side. Or, I should say, a bit more abusable than average.
- Although the adventures are interesting, the large portions of world they are set in is irritatingly derivative or downright campy. See: Andoran spear charge artwork (pg 42, Inner Sea Guide). Ya, Colonial America armed with melee weapons. And the human ethnicities are pretty much all carbon copies of Earth equivalents.
As always, it will come down to who you play with. Not only in overall quality, but in ability to appreciate the good stuff and deal with the bad stuff.
- Pathfinder gets CHARACTERS. The first thing anyone does in an RPG is get to know their character, whether it is by assignment or by creation. And that character has to be interesting. They take the basics, open it up with options, and let.
- Pathfinder provides lots of support, most notably in the form of rather playable adventures. The people at Paizo are practiced in Adventure-fu, and it shows.
On the flip side...
- Pathfinder is complex, and by virtue of that (and the options mentioned under characters), a bit on the abusable side. Or, I should say, a bit more abusable than average.
- Although the adventures are interesting, the large portions of world they are set in is irritatingly derivative or downright campy. See: Andoran spear charge artwork (pg 42, Inner Sea Guide). Ya, Colonial America armed with melee weapons. And the human ethnicities are pretty much all carbon copies of Earth equivalents.
As always, it will come down to who you play with. Not only in overall quality, but in ability to appreciate the good stuff and deal with the bad stuff.
Kramodlog
Naked and living in a barrel
I always thought it was Pathfinder's Unearthed Arcana.
Yesterday I popped into Orc's Nest games shop looking for something quick to buy ahead of my osteopath appointment at Pineapple Studios (Ian Schofield - highly recommended!) 
- and the very first thing on the top of the pile of Paizo softcovers was brand new "Belkzen - Hold of the Orc Hordes". Well, my Curse of the Crimson Throne AP campaign is currently in Belkzen, so that's perfect - I snapped it up.
Paizo are brilliant at this mutually-supporting web of interlocking products. I know whatever I get from them will have great art, great production values, and at least some good/useful stuff. This is the case even for non-Pathfinder campaigns - eg I ran Rise of the Runelords in 1e until they TPK'd on Nualia. They have mastered the deluge-of-products release style while maintaining quality and avoiding the 2e AD&D TSR mistake of splitting the market through multiple campaign settings.
I find their politics irritating sometimes and I know now that they have no interest in creating a believable or consistent world; but in most cases I can generally work around that - and for many other consumers I expect their politics are a plus.
(It would be nice though if they would put a Parental Advisory on their RPG products the way that Dynamite do the Pathfinder comics - I'd like to know in advance of purchase what stuff I can safely use with my
7 year old)
- and the very first thing on the top of the pile of Paizo softcovers was brand new "Belkzen - Hold of the Orc Hordes". Well, my Curse of the Crimson Throne AP campaign is currently in Belkzen, so that's perfect - I snapped it up.Paizo are brilliant at this mutually-supporting web of interlocking products. I know whatever I get from them will have great art, great production values, and at least some good/useful stuff. This is the case even for non-Pathfinder campaigns - eg I ran Rise of the Runelords in 1e until they TPK'd on Nualia. They have mastered the deluge-of-products release style while maintaining quality and avoiding the 2e AD&D TSR mistake of splitting the market through multiple campaign settings.
I find their politics irritating sometimes and I know now that they have no interest in creating a believable or consistent world; but in most cases I can generally work around that - and for many other consumers I expect their politics are a plus.
(It would be nice though if they would put a Parental Advisory on their RPG products the way that Dynamite do the Pathfinder comics - I'd like to know in advance of purchase what stuff I can safely use with my
7 year old)
Starfox
Hero
Orc's nest is still around? Awesome! I remember looking into that shop in the mid 80's. They didn't have their infamous orc's nest coffee mugs in stock then tough.
Otherwise, I generally agree with your sentiments - Pathfinder has simply built a very solid product identity, and the rules are actually a lesser part of all this. It is the mass of Golarion products that are Pazio's key to success. Personally, I kind of like that their cultures are so generic, as it makes them very portable - even if I'm not playing in Golarion, I can use most Pathfinder materials with little adaption.
But, yes, there are a few too many 3.5-isms in Pathfinder. They straightened out some of the obstructive rules (mainly in combat maneuvers), but many more remain. THe problem is that many of Pathfinder's issues are in the basic framework - things like ittertive attacks and how TWF works. And changing that might force them to change how stat blocks work, which would invalidate many of their published supplements. I don't think Pazio wants to risk that.
As I noted in another thread, a revised Pathfinder would probably look pretty much like a 5E skeleton with Pathfinder classes and archetypes nailed to it. At least that's how I'd do it.
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