D&D 4E Is this a legacy from earlier editions or a 4E thing?

[amysrevenge]

"A damaging attack will always do at least 1 point of damage (before resistances)."

Is this printed in a 4E book somewhere? Every single member of my local club knows that this is a rule, but nobody can point it out. I know that this was true in 3E, and I sort of remember at least playing that way in 2E, but I can't find it printed in a 4E book.

By what rules I can actually locate, if you are weakened (half damage, drop the fraction) and fighting an insubstantial (half damage, drop the fraction) enemy that has a power to transfer half of its damage (drop the fraction) to one of its allies, you'd need to do at least 8 points of damage to get 1 point to stick. If you do only 7, then the result is 0:

7 / 2 = 3.5 -> 3

3 / 2 = 1.5 -> 1

1 / 2 = 0.5 -> 0

 

[abyssaldeath]

It's a legacy rule. You absolutely can do 0 damage with an attack in 4e. If a Wizard with an 8 strength throws a punch, hits and rolls a 1 for damage he will do 0 damage because of the -1 strength modifier.

 

[DracoSuave]

Absolutely a legacy.

And, in third edition, if you had an effect that divided your damage in half, then attacked an enemy that took half damage from all attacks and had a friend with shield other on him, he'd also take zero damage, as the 1 damage minimum only applies to the damage roll. Other effects (not just resistances or damage reduction) can affect it as well.

 

[Kingreaper]

"A damaging attack will always do at least 1 point of damage (before resistances)."

Is this printed in a 4E book somewhere? Every single member of my local club knows that this is a rule, but nobody can point it out. I know that this was true in 3E, and I sort of remember at least playing that way in 2E, but I can't find it printed in a 4E book.

By what rules I can actually locate, if you are weakened (half damage, drop the fraction) and fighting an insubstantial (half damage, drop the fraction) enemy that has a power to transfer half of its damage (drop the fraction) to one of its allies, you'd need to do at least 8 points of damage to get 1 point to stick. If you do only 7, then the result is 0:

7 / 2 = 3.5 -> 3

3 / 2 = 1.5 -> 1

1 / 2 = 0.5 -> 0

Not quite.

If you do 7 damage, you'll end up dealing 1 damage to the critter (it transfers 1/2=0 damage to it's ally, leaving it to take 1 damage)

If you do 8 damage, you'll deal 1 damage to the critter, and 1 damage to its buddy.

 

[Shin Okada]

4e definitely allows you to inflict 0 damage. Another question popped up in my mind regarding the OP's example.

When two or more factors make a damage into "half damage", shall we apply "halving" multiple times? or Not?

I am not sure if this is clarified in some rule book or FAQ.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

There's nothing in the rules that would prevent such from stacking.

Indeed, the common assumption with wraith's is that both their insubstantial and their imposed weakened condition apply.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

AFAIK, in the case of a wraith if you attack /w a power dealing radiant damage and the vulnerability applies, it applies before you apply insubstantial.

Therefore, you apply insubstantial last, after resistances/etc.

That makes encounters /w insubstantial and weakened rather long and annoying you should avoid that combo.

 

[Joshua Randall]

It's like this:

half damage
When a power or another effect deals half damage, apply all modifiers to the damage, including resistances and vulnerabilities, and then divide the damage in half.

So, you hit the wraith for 10 radiant damage. It's vulnerable 5 radiant, so that gets increased to 15 radiant damage. But it's also insubstantial, so then you divide the 15 in half, so it takes 7 damage.

If you were weakened, the wraith would only take 3 damage.

Yeah. Weakened + Insubstantial sucks.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

It's like this:

So, you hit the wraith for 10 radiant damage. It's vulnerable 5 radiant, so that gets increased to 15 radiant damage. But it's also insubstantial, so then you divide the 15 in half, so it takes 7 damage.

If you were weakened, the wraith would only take 3 damage.

Yeah. Weakened + Insubstantial sucks.

No, it's 5 not 3 b/c you would deal 10/2=5 radiant damage (weakened) increased by the vulnerability to 10 and halved for insubstantial to 5. -- This is what I wanted to answer BUT after rereading the relevant rule parts I agree with you - you're right.
The only messy thing about all this halving is, insubstantial halves ongoing damage whereas weakened doesn't.