Is this alt.Ranger balanced?

[Mercule]

Here's a variant I'm considering using in my upcoming game. It is to replace both the Ranger and the Barbarian. The question is, did I make it too good?

Here are a list of premises I used to design it:

1) Barbarian and Ranger are redundant classes to an extent.

2) Rage, while an interesting idea belongs more in the realm of a PrC than a base class.

3) TWF is completely unrelated to being a Ranger. Likewise, Rangers may be more likely to take up the bow, but they are not automatically experts in any fighting style.

4) Spells are not necessary for the core concept of a wilderness warrior, any more than they are necessary for a sneaky con man.

With no further ado, here's my Ranger:

Weapons and Armor: as PH Ranger.
Skills: as PH Ranger. 6 skills/level.
Hit Die: d10.

[FONT=courier new][COLOR=orange]
 Level    BAB     Fort    Refl    Will  Special
   1       +1      +2      +0      +0   Tracking; Favored Enemy; Fast Movement
   2       +2      +3      +0      +0   Uncanny dodge (not flat-footed); Favored Enemy
   3       +3      +3      +1      +1
   4       +4      +4      +1      +1   Favored Enemy
   5       +5      +4      +1      +1   Uncanny dodge (can't be flanked)
   6       +6      +5      +2      +2   Favored Enemy
   7       +7      +5      +2      +2
   8       +8      +6      +2      +2   Favored Enemy
   9       +9      +6      +3      +3
   10     +10      +7      +3      +3   Uncanny dodge (+1 against traps); Favored Enemy
   11     +11      +7      +3      +3   DR 1/-
   12     +12      +8      +4      +4   Favored Enemy
   13     +13      +8      +4      +4   Uncanny dodge (+2 against traps)
   14     +14      +9      +4      +4   Favored Enemy; DR 2/-
   15     +15      +9      +5      +5
   16     +16     +10      +5      +5   Uncanny dodge (+3 against traps); Favored Enemy
   17     +17     +10      +5      +5   DR 3/-
   18     +18     +11      +6      +6   Favored Enemy
   19     +19     +11      +6      +6   Uncanny dodge (+4 against traps)
   20     +20     +12      +6      +6   Favored Enemy; DR 4/-
[/COLOR][/FONT]

Tracking: As the feat.
Favored Enemy: As Ranger with the following exceptions. At first level and every even level thereafter, the Ranger picks _one_ creature, organization, or terrain. He then gets a +1 bonus on damage and several skills (see PH for list) when encountering a member of that species or organization, or when in that terrain.

Each time the Ranger gains this power, he can opt to either apply it to a new foe/terrain or increase his bonus for an existing foe/terrain. The Ranger may not have more than a +5 to any single foe/terrain. Otherwise, these bonuses do not stack. For example, an 8th level Ranger could be +2 against orcs and +3 in the forest. If facing an orc in the forest, his bonus would be +3 (for forest, the better of the two) _not_ +5.

Fast Movement: Adds 10' to base movement rate. Only while wearing medium, light, or no armor.

Uncanny Dodge: As it appears everywhere else.

Damage Reduction: As PH Barbarian.


Notes:

Essentially, this is the Ranger (with the 3.5 skill points) with spellcasting and combat paths/TWF removed. Replace these with the Barbarian movement, Uncanny Dodge, and DR. The Favored Enemy is reduced in power, slightly (total of +11 instead of +15), but has increased flexibility.

I'm happy with the flavor, as are my players. My concern is whether the TWF/paths and spells are a fair trade for the movement, uncanny dodge, and DR. And, is does the increased flexibility outweigh the reduction in power to the favored enemy?

Thoughts?

 

[Merlion]

I'd say the uncanny dodge movement and damage reduction arent quite enough to make up for the loss of the spells and free feats/virtual feats.
Give back the spells, or maybe a bonus feat list/pool of some kind

 

[Darklone]

Let's see.... 6 skill points per level...

That makes up for the loss of spells IMHO. Favored enemy... sigh.

Uh well. He's not that much worse than a fighter, so he can do without spells.

 

[Steverooo]

He's tougher than the 3e Ranger, and as skilled as the 3.5, but still pretty bland and flavorless, and not adaptable. He can't set snares (or even cast the Snare spell), can't set tripwires (or even cast the Alarm spell), could be a Barbarian (just give him Rage instead of Track), and seems pretty uninteresting (to me). He is no more survivable in the wild than the Fighter, unless he takes lotsa WL, and no more stealthy without lotsa Hide & MS. At least he now has Uncanny Dodge, so that he isn't reduced to AC 12-14, when surprised...

[Typo edit.]

 

[Mercule]

He's tougher than the 3e Ranger, and as skilled as the 3,5, but still pretty bland and flavorless, and not adaptable. He can't set snares (or even cast the Snare spell), can't set tripwires (or even cast the Alarm spell), could be a Barbarian (just give him Rage instead of Track), and seems pretty uninteresting (to me). He is no more survivable in the wild than the Fighter, unless he takes lotsa WL, and no more stealthy without lotsa Hide & MS. At least he now has Uncanny Dodge, so that he isn't reduced to AC 12-14, when surprised...

Well, I guess I viewed all of those as being skill-oriented. Snares are either WL/Survival or Craft (Trapmaking). Wilderness Lore/Survival takes care of the survival in the wilds -- I'm not sure I see another option, there. And I have difficulty giving the Ranger a bonus to Hide and MS when the Rogue doesn't receive one.

For all of the above, I guess I see having the skills as in class as a mark of expertise (or potential expertise).

As far as flexibility goes, the "Favored Enemy" (name should really be changed) is more flexible than the current Ranger's ability. And by giving skill points, rather than abilities, the character is able to be customized to the player's view.

I'm not trying to get huffy or anything, just explain where I was coming from in the design. What sort of things would you recommend to "flavor" the class? Or, at least tell me what sort of flavor you're looking for, so we can tell whether we agree on that.

 

[Crothian]

It doesn't seem that interesting. I'm not sure how uncanny dodge fits the idea of the Wilderness Warrior other then the fact that the Barbarian happens to have it.

I think you might want to solidify your concept and then build it from scratch instead of taking the stack of range and barbarian cards and shuffleing them together.

 

[Mercule]

It doesn't seem that interesting. I'm not sure how uncanny dodge fits the idea of the Wilderness Warrior other then the fact that the Barbarian happens to have it.

I think you might want to solidify your concept and then build it from scratch instead of taking the stack of range and barbarian cards and shuffleing them together.

I actually did build this Ranger more or less from scratch. I looked at Uncanny Dodge as the fact that a Ranger is hard to surprise/always alert. When I really thought about it, I really didn't understand why the Barbarian has Uncanny Dodge. To me, it fits the Ranger, but not the Barbarian. After giving the Ranger most of the abilities I did, I realized that there was no point to the Barbarian other than DR and Rage. So I swiped DR and gave up on Rage -- DR is really the only thing that I added to the Ranger that I didn't immediately think made sense.

Seriously, though, what sort of flavor could be added? Two people have now commented on that, so I'm pretty inclined to take it to heart. I'm having a hard time seeing it for myself, though. How is this class any flatter than the core Fighter or Wizard or Rogue?

I can see it compared to a Prestige class or the Paladin (which, IMHO, should be a PrC) or maybe the Monk and Bard. Compared with most of the core classes, though, it seems no more or less bland.

 

[Crothian]

Fighter= Flavor is their attack power and versatility of feats as they are the dedicated combat concept.

Wizard = Flavor is the spells, familar, and magical feats as they are the arcane magical specialist.

Rogue: Skills specialist, sneak attack, and abilities that fit with the sneakiness and range of abilities.

So, what do you whant the Ranger to be good at? You state what it isn't but not really what it is. You say "Wilderness Warrior", but what in the class really says that? Track and some skills, but other then that it seems to not really say Wilderness Warrior. What you have is not bad, it just seems to me it can be better and fit the concept; your concept. One of the reason we see a thousand alt rangers is because everyone seems to see a Ranger as different. So, until you lockdown what you think a Ranger should be, it's hard to help by suggestions alternative abilities.

 

[Steverooo]

It doesn't seem that interesting. I'm not sure how uncanny dodge fits the idea of the Wilderness Warrior other then the fact that the Barbarian happens to have it.

If a Rogue scouts ahead in the wilderness, with the same DEX as a Ranger, and he gets surprised, his AC doesn't suffer because he is caught flat-footed. The same is true for the Barbarian. The Ranger loses any DEX bonus to AC, when surprised.

If a wilderness Rogue with the same stats as a Ranger DOES achieve surprise, he gets bonus Sneak Attack damage, as well as a free round of attacks, and possibly another set before the enemies stop being flat-footed, depending upon Initiative. The Ranger gets one or two attacks (depending upon Initiative), but not any damage bonus.

Once true combat begins (Surprise is over), the Ranger can be flanked. The Barbarian and Rogue cannot.

With this version, Barbarian/Ranger are on equal footing, but the Rogue is still a superior Scout, because of his Sneak Attack (although the woodsman is superior in straight-up melee, should the enemy live so long), due to the better HP & BAB.

 

[Steverooo]

Some suggestions:

1) Make Rage/Track a choice, so that both Barbarians and Rangers can be built.

2) Add flavor. Wilderness abilities include things like the ability to predict the weather, set snares, nets, deadfalls, dig pits, and create "bushwhacker" limb traps that hit you like a morningstar, or snares which pick you up and slam you into sharpened branches, etc. Others might include Energy Resistance 5 to natural Heat and Cold, etc., etc. There are a million things you can do.

3) Make each level of DR tradeable for minor spell use (there currently is no way to allow the Ranger to be recreated).

4) Look at each Ranger spell. Find a non-magical function that allows him to do much the same thing, and consider adding it as a class ability at one of the levels that currently has no special ability. EXAMPLE: The Alarm spell could be replaced with the ability to set tripwires (just as a fer instance).

5) Add an option allowing something to be traded away for the D12 HD, to allow recreation of the Barbarian (alignment restriction and illiteracy?).