Is this alt.Ranger balanced?

Trapsetting:

Here's how I did it:


Trapsetting (General)
You are familiar with deadfalls, limb-traps, nets, pits, snares, and other such simple traps usable in the outdoors.
Prerequisite: Free with Wilderness Lore 1+.
Benefit: You can set deadfalls, limb-traps, and snares, concealed pit traps, or rig nets, with a DC of up to 20, making them out of natural materials at hand.

(I also have damage rules, but am still working on the times required for digging pits, etc.... Not enough time behind a shovel to know, personally!) :D
 

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Steverooo said:
Some suggestions:

Great! I appreciate these. Let me go through each one and give my thoughts. Again, not trying to be argumentative. Just working through some ideas.


1) Make Rage/Track a choice, so that both Barbarians and Rangers can be built.
My thought on this is that it's a campaign world thing. Raging barbarians don't fit particularly well in my homebrew. Sure, there are some, but they strike me as more appropriate for a PrC.


2) Add flavor. Wilderness abilities include things like the ability to predict the weather, set snares, nets, deadfalls, dig pits, and create "bushwhacker" limb traps that hit you like a morningstar, or snares which pick you up and slam you into sharpened branches, etc. Others might include Energy Resistance 5 to natural Heat and Cold, etc., etc. There are a million things you can do.
All of what you're talking about are already part of my design.

Weather sense, and other survival bits are already part of the Wilderness Lore skill.

All the trapsetting for a Ranger is already handled the same way it is for a Rogue, the Craft (trapmaking) ability. I could see the arguement for allowing Rangers to do it with the WL/Survival skill, but that seems like a bad idea when there is already a mechanic for it in the game.

With both of the above, I just don't like the idea of adding a "special ability" to the class when I could just add an in-class skill (as these already are). It just doesn't seem like sound design.

As far as the DR vs heat and cold, the DR I've added at higher levels already works against heat and cold. It applies to all damage.

3) Make each level of DR tradeable for minor spell use (there currently is no way to allow the Ranger to be recreated).
D&D isn't really built to be modular in this way. If it was, we'd just have one character class and pick our abilities on a point buy.

I'm not really trying to duplicate the current Ranger class (otherwise, I'd just use that class). I'm trying to craft a class that better fits the core archetype(s). I don't see spells as being even remotely appropriate to the basic Ranger concept, but that's the nice thing about the multiclassing rules -- a player could easily pick up a few levels of Druid or Wizard to grab some spells. One of my design principles was actually to remove spells from the Ranger.


4) Look at each Ranger spell. Find a non-magical function that allows him to do much the same thing, and consider adding it as a class ability at one of the levels that currently has no special ability. EXAMPLE: The Alarm spell could be replaced with the ability to set tripwires (just as a fer instance).
Again, I don't see the spells as part of the core Ranger archetype. I really don't have any desire to give them supernatural abilities. Pretty much anything else that the Ranger needs, I think can come from his skills. Setting tripwires certainly can -- Craft (Trapmaking).

5) Add an option allowing something to be traded away for the D12 HD, to allow recreation of the Barbarian (alignment restriction and illiteracy?).

Again, not trying to recreate the Barbarian. If the class came out power-light, I think a d12 HD would be appropriate for the class. I don't know that it is necessary, though. I definitely _don't_ think that HD should be a swappable class feature, though. Whatever the hit die is, it is.

Thoughts? Am I coming from left field with some of my ideas here?
 
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Mercule said:
Weather sense, and other survival bits are already part of the Wilderness Lore skill

Actually, no (see the 3e Upgrade Guide for 2e). Weather sense is part of Knowledge (Nature). Surviving the weather is part of Wilderness Lore (WL)/Survival. In my games, I have made Knowledge (Nature) an "Academic" skill, while WL/Survival is a "doing" skill. Hence, K(N) lets you predict the weather, but WL does, too. DC depends upon how far ahead you want to predict the weather.
 

Mercule said:
All the trapsetting for a Ranger is already handled the same way it is for a Rogue, the Craft (trapmaking) ability. I could see the arguement for allowing Rangers to do it with the WL/Survival skill, but that seems like a bad idea when there is already a mechanic for it in the game.

Again, if the Ranger/Rogue wants to spend a WEEK building a bear trap, I agree. If he wants to spend a day plus building a box trap for rabbits, ditto. If he wants to take advantage of the WL/Survival skill, however, and spend only half a day, Craft (Trapmaking) doesn't work. It takes too long.

Look at any book on survival... They pretty much all cover deadfalls and snares. I have the Collins Gem SAS Survival Guide sitting right here, and there are over ten pages of snares and deadfalls, alone. In order to find food in the wild (unless you're assuming that Rangers just gather plants and bugs - God help'em in winter), they have to be able to set trap, catch, prepare, and eat it, and still have enough time left over to travel the other half of the day.

Read the Craft rules... Sorry, can't be done with that skill. That's why I created the free "Trapsetting" Feat and give it to anyone with WL 1+.

[Edit: PS: Check out the Trapmaking rules in the DMG; ONE WEEK, and 1,000 GP to make a CR 1 trap, like a net! Does that work for your Rangers? It surely does NOT work for mine!]

Now you see why I think the Trapsetting Feat is a necessity...
 
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Mercule said:
As far as the DR vs heat and cold, the DR I've added at higher levels already works against heat and cold. It applies to all damage.

I'm sorry, Mercule... this is going to "sound" bad, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, either, but... Your knowledge of the rules is... a bit lacking. Read the DMG section on what DR and Energy Resistance are, and you'll see the difference between the two.

I'm dropping the subject. :eek:
 

Bland

Mercule said:
Thoughts? Am I coming from left field with some of my ideas here?

This Ranger is pretty bland, IMHO, and also a bit underpowered. D12 won't fix the former. I would suggest figuring out what you think a "Wilderness Warrior" should be able to do, then read the rules on how those things work (where there are any), and see what needs to be changed to let them do those things... then grant them special abilities that allow it.

I have my version of the Ranger. Good luck with yours! :D
 

Steverooo said:


Actually, no (see the 3e Upgrade Guide for 2e). Weather sense is part of Knowledge (Nature). Surviving the weather is part of Wilderness Lore (WL)/Survival. In my games, I have made Knowledge (Nature) an "Academic" skill, while WL/Survival is a "doing" skill. Hence, K(N) lets you predict the weather, but WL does, too. DC depends upon how far ahead you want to predict the weather.

So it is. For extended weather prediction, I'd agree with these rules. For the quick "It'll rain soon," I'd allow a WL check anyway. The latter is what I'm envisioning for most Rangers. Regardless, my point was that this mechanism is currently handled by skills which happen to be in class for the Ranger.

IMHO, if this mechanism doesn't work, the problem lies with the mechanic and a patch shouldn't be thrown into the Ranger class.
 

Steverooo said:


Again, if the Ranger/Rogue wants to spend a WEEK building a bear trap, I agree. If he wants to spend a day plus building a box trap for rabbits, ditto. If he wants to take advantage of the WL/Survival skill, however, and spend only half a day, Craft (Trapmaking) doesn't work. It takes too long.

...

Read the Craft rules... Sorry, can't be done with that skill. That's why I created the free "Trapsetting" Feat and give it to anyone with WL 1+.

[Edit: PS: Check out the Trapmaking rules in the DMG; ONE WEEK, and 1,000 GP to make a CR 1 trap, like a net! Does that work for your Rangers? It surely does NOT work for mine!]

Now you see why I think the Trapsetting Feat is a necessity...

Again, I'd say the issue is with the Craft skill, not with the idea of using the established mechanic. I've seen a lot of discussion about how the Craft skill is "broken" and can't say I disagree. Hopefully, this is fixed in 3.5.

As far as the time required to create a trap, yeah, that's a bit excessive. Again, though, the Ranger shouldn't use different rules than the Rogue for this. It shouldn't take a Rogue a week to make a simple deadfall, either. Patching it for the Ranger alone doesn't really make the problem go away. The way we've handled this in our group is to just estimate what a reasonable time frame should be if something sounds absurd.

I could easily see the argument to allow WL to handle simple, natural traps. For ease of mechanic, I'd probably allow anything with a craft DC of 20 or lower (CR1-3).

I'm not really a slave to the rules, but one attractive thing about 3E is (for the most part) when there is a mechanic to do something, that mechanic is used consistantly. The inconsistant mechanics was one of the worst things about 2E and I refuse to return to that.
 

Steverooo said:


I'm sorry, Mercule... this is going to "sound" bad, and I'm not trying to be argumentative, either, but... Your knowledge of the rules is... a bit lacking. Read the DMG section on what DR and Energy Resistance are, and you'll see the difference between the two.

*chuckle*

Yup. That is a pretty bad mistake.

Actually, my knowledge of the rules is pretty good. You've just caught me on some things that we don't often use. I'm not a walking encyclopedia.
 

Damage reduction X/- does indeed work against anything and everything including heat and cold as far as I know. I was under the impression it was an expetion to the usual rule about energy
 

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