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is this GM bad or am i just a wuss?

epicbob

Explorer
on the bright side, he's always able to come up with a good scenario (for as long as i've had him as a GM) and he's great at NPC acting.

now, for the flip side.

our group is mostly composed of beginners. however, the DM expects us to have the instincts and experience of long-time players.

also, when we're taking a long time to figure out a solution to problems (for whatever reason), he tends to get mocking and sarcastic because HE (and/or his other experienced friends) would have long solved that situatition.

and, sadly, he likes to go on several minute monologues even now and then about stuff that has no immediate relevance (if any to begin with). the most frequent of which i know of is about the average population of different towns. he must've mentioned this one at least 3 times since i've played with him.

in combat, he's nitpicky about pointless stuff. for example :

DM : Which Goblin do you attack?
Me : (with my bow) The closest one.
DM : That's not specific enough.
Me : O.o fine...Goblin number 1.
DM : Dude, i shouldn't have to tell you that you have to choose betwen the melee Goblins and the ranged Goblins. you have to make sure you know this and if you can't understand my subtle hints, it's your problem.
Me : (to myself) are you :):):):)ing serious???

the rest of the fights, we almost always start toe-to-toe with the enemy, making my archery Rogue entirely POINTLESS. i can only depend on my Rapier and hope i get criticals because i have no AB worth talking about.

as for in-game situations...

first campaign, he takes over some of my roleplay moments. i ell him that even if i blow at it, i'd like to do my own roleplay so i can hopefully improve. pretty much ignored.

the party meets up, we get out of town and about two encounters in, we get chased by Frost Giants...at level 1.

luckily, we escape. we ended up in an underground cavern and because the DM wouldn't give us any advice, half the party almost drowned in ice-cold water. we could have taken 20 but since we didn't ask him, he didn't tell us.

luckily, we survived that too (he gave us 100 xp for surviving a danger we created ourselves). we end up in a Dwarven Kingdom. during a mission for a dwarven mine, we get captured by Drows because we didn't specify we were Silent Moving.

again, luckily, the prison we were in was falling apart so we got out.

later, in the main city, we learn (too late) that we need a pass to even BE in there. it's possible we should have not told them we didn't have a pass but still, we had no way of knowing this at ALL. no one told us and we had no reason to suspect we needed one...until the innkeeper called the guards on our ass.

the rest of the campaign was us getting carried to jail and publicly executed. he also spent a few hours on this sequence. which means we spent the REST of the session jerking off because there was NOTHING we could really do. hell, i just said **** it and was doing intimidation checks for the lulz.

second campaign. we have to clear a mansion of undeads. after a while, we get to the source and what do we discover? a Lich. in spite of my inexperience, i had decided this was NOT worth it, turned around and RAN. heck, one of the players lost his character right there. lost their soul to it. the Paladin made a brave charge and after a few rounds, the Lich just teleported away and all was well again.

a while after, we just left the region, got ambushed by way more bandit than we could handle (7 to 1 ratio), were left naked (except for a stick i found) and peniless. we walked to a nearby town where we went to a church an asked for charity. turns out the priest fetched a few guards to kick our ass (luckily we won). apparently the particular deity didn't like us or something. we dropped this campaign altogether.

third campaign. we have to solve some mystery about people going nuts for no reason. some of his experienced friends have joined our group of beginners. since they're used to playing DnD, they take the spotlight and the DM never does anything to involve ANYONE else. which means i spend most of the time jerking off. eventually we trace the source to some tower. we tried to distract a group of Kobolds by lighting a tent on fire from a distance. ALL the Kobolds charged STRAIGHT at us immediately. luckily, we survived. except that in the next session, the quest was "completed" by a couple of newly introduced players.

we later travelled to another town, got a quest to go into a mausoleum. however, whenever we approached the mausoleum, an entire HORDE of zombies came at us. even the DM admitted he screwed up on that one. the next few encounters consisted of monsters that, while relatively fragile, could ORKO us with 3 attacks per monster. there was also some "recorded flashback" sequence that held no obvious meaning. then we fought a boss that could ORKO us except it wasn't fragile.

that quest was dropped too. mostly because the DM couldn't keep the whole group in sync.

current quest. he sends us at a goblin base to fetch a merchant's family amulet. he sends us to a left-right choice with no real indication of what leads where. then we get to a base and he eventually told us to check for a secret entrance because we couldn't find any obvious way in. we get in and eventually find the amulet. on the way, we got stuck in a magically trapped room (the ONLY room in the ENTIRE base with any magic) that required our sorcerer i think FIVE successful rolls in a ROW to merely FIND the source of the magic. in the meantime, i got knocked to 0 HP by an aberration creature. i really wonder why the goblins never got stuck in there...

there are other buildings we tried to explore. one was the sleeping quarters for the goblins with a high level DC that i BARELY managed to lockpick (you'd think one of the goblins we killed would have the keys to their own SLEEPING QUARTERS). there wasn't even anything valuable in there. then there was a massive tower that i couldn't unlock with maxed-out lockpick at Rogue level 2 AND a natural 20. we had to leave it.

also, there was the Goblin treasure hoard but the amulet was actually in a random cabinet somewhere. WHY would Goblins put it there???

those are my personal experiences with that DM. so i ask...am i just weak or is the DM too unreasonable?
 

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those are my personal experiences with that DM. so i ask...am i just weak or is the DM too unreasonable?

It sounds like he's probably well-suited to his own group of experienced players, and is a good DM to them.

But it also sounds like he lacks patience, is (as you said) nitpicky, and might be a bit of a jerk. The second DM I ever had could be described like that too. Great guy, good DM, bad with beginners.

Based on the fact that he ignores you when you (understandably) protest to having him roleplay for you, it sounds like he's unlikely to change either.

Your whole beginner group might want to find someone else...
 

As with most interpersonal issues, there may be fault on both sides... usually these types of problems are caused by a lack of up-front discussion of the players' and GM's expectations for the style of gameplay and level of challenge.

If you can, talk to other players (new AND old) and get their feelings on the issues. Do it delicately.
Then, if you're not the only one, have a pow wow with the GM and see what you can all come up with.

If in the end you can't come to an agreement, agree to disagree, and walk away.
It might be better for the beginners to find a beginner DM, or a DM who is accustomed to teaching new players.

I hope it doesn't come to that, though, as I'd rather see you all resolve the issue.
 

Have a sit-down.

This is a problem that isn't going to get resolved at the table.



I actually advise against talking with the other players beforehand. (Meeting with them might not be particularly educative, and even if it is, it won't help you resolve the problem...it'll just fuel your fire and "rightness"...not that you aren't correct, but you need to address the problem in a neutral tone with both sides being open to understanding and possible compromise.) Let the DM know your own personal issues, that you feel confused how to play, wonder if you could get some more "direction" and also wonder how your style and the DM's might better fit.


Best of luck to you.
 

our group is mostly composed of beginners. however, the DM expects us to have the instincts and experience of long-time players.
Explain this to him if you haven't. Sometimes we don't see things from the players perspective and make a lot of assumptions. He may just assume things are easier for you than they really are.

also, when we're taking a long time to figure out a solution to problems (for whatever reason), he tends to get mocking and sarcastic because HE (and/or his other experienced friends) would have long solved that situatition.
As a DM, I can get bored too when players take forever to do the slightest thing. Are you guys taking 30 minutes to decide something as piddly as which pathway to take? If so, you are partly to blame. But the DM still shouldn't be a smartass about it. Ask him not to do that and tell him that if he feels you guys are taking too long, to just speak up and and say so.

and, sadly, he likes to go on several minute monologues even now and then about stuff that has no immediate relevance (if any to begin with). the most frequent of which i know of is about the average population of different towns. he must've mentioned this one at least 3 times since i've played with him.
A guy that likes to shoot the breeze with his "friends". Yeah, that's the worst sort of DM right there. Especially the type of guy that keeps rehashing the same stories. If I have to hear my dad's 'pretzel move wrestling joke' one more time my head will explode. Good thing he doesn't DM.

DM : Dude, i shouldn't have to tell you that you have to choose betwen the melee Goblins and the ranged Goblins. you have to make sure you know this and if you can't understand my subtle hints, it's your problem.
I don't really understand this one. But I prefer players telling me exactly which NPC they attack because I keep separate hitpoints for each one. It also keeps there from being misunderstandings.

the rest of the fights, we almost always start toe-to-toe with the enemy, making my archery Rogue entirely POINTLESS. i can only depend on my Rapier and hope i get criticals because i have no AB worth talking about.
Archery Rogues are entirely pointless. You should be sticking and jabbing with a blade like a real Rogue. Preferably with daggers like they used to do before the rapier became the only Rogue weapon. That way you can throw your daggers the few times you don't have to go toe-to-toe, so either way, yer using the same weapon!

first campaign, he takes over some of my roleplay moments. i ell him that even if i blow at it, i'd like to do my own roleplay so i can hopefully improve. pretty much ignored.
I've never seen a DM roleplay a persons PC for them. Why don't you ask him if you can roleplay his NPCs for him?

the party meets up, we get out of town and about two encounters in, we get chased by Frost Giants...at level 1.
You should have fired at them with your Archer Rogue's bow!

luckily, we escape. we ended up in an underground cavern and because the DM wouldn't give us any advice, half the party almost drowned in ice-cold water. we could have taken 20 but since we didn't ask him, he didn't tell us.
It isn't really the responsibility of a DM to give advice. Not that he can't, but I wouldn't put the blame on him if he didn't. I ask God for advice all the time and he still just tells me to "read the book".

we get captured by Drows because we didn't specify we were Silent Moving.
Ya should have specified you were moving silently. I assume nothing as a DM because it can get me into trouble. Plus, he has a slew of NPCs to play, he can't play your PC for you.

later, in the main city, we learn (too late) that we need a pass to even BE in there. it's possible we should have not told them we didn't have a pass but still, we had no way of knowing this at ALL. no one told us and we had no reason to suspect we needed one...until the innkeeper called the guards on our ass.
What is the problem here? Sounds like a fun game to me. What do you think should have happened? How did you get inside then without a pass? The gate guards let you in without a pass or telling you that you need a pass? That would be strange, but I still think this scenario sounds like a pretty fun predicament to overcome. I don't know why yer complaining about this at all.

the rest of the campaign was us getting carried to jail and publicly executed. he also spent a few hours on this sequence. which means we spent the REST of the session jerking off because there was NOTHING we could really do. hell, i just said **** it and was doing intimidation checks for the lulz.
Taken face value, this sounds kinda crappy. But if he spent 2 hours on this scenario, I'm lead to believe he was trying to give you guys every opportunity to escape or possibly fight your way out. But even if that is the case, this could be chalked up to you guys just being inexperienced players that didn't pick up on his subtle "escape routes". It's nobodies fault really, but the DM probably should have been a bit more obvious & helpful if he meant for you guys to escape.

second campaign. we have to clear a mansion of undeads. after a while, we get to the source and what do we discover? a Lich. in spite of my inexperience, i had decided this was NOT worth it, turned around and RAN. heck, one of the players lost his character right there. lost their soul to it. the Paladin made a brave charge and after a few rounds, the Lich just teleported away and all was well again.
I blame the cowardly Rogue for running! :p Naw, I don't know what to say about this. There is a lack of info, so I'm not sure what you are complaining about. Are you saying the DM shouldn't have had a Lich as the BBEG at your level?

a while after, we just left the region, got ambushed by way more bandit than we could handle (7 to 1 ratio), were left naked (except for a stick i found) and peniless. we walked to a nearby town where we went to a church an asked for charity. turns out the priest fetched a few guards to kick our ass (luckily we won). apparently the particular deity didn't like us or something. we dropped this campaign altogether.
You show up at a church naked and armed with a stick? What kind of stick was this? Were you waving it around in a threatening manner? Did you ID the stick to make sure it wasn't radiating evil? You never explained where you got the stick. Was it on the ground when you found it or did you pull it off of a live tree? Did the stick maybe belong to one of the priests? Does this gods rival have a holy symbol that looks like a stick? To be honest, if you showed up at my door naked and armed with a stick, and you started asking me for some free stuff, I'd probably call a few cops and hope they kicked your butt.

since they're used to playing DnD, they take the spotlight and the DM never does anything to involve ANYONE else. which means i spend most of the time jerking off.
At the table? The experienced players didn't mind? I've heard of players stacking dice or texting, but damn.



there are other buildings we tried to explore. one was the sleeping quarters for the goblins with a high level DC that i BARELY managed to lockpick (you'd think one of the goblins we killed would have the keys to their own SLEEPING QUARTERS).
Yer the Rogue and yer complaining about having to use your lockpick skill? You just want the keys? That's a new one for me.

then there was a massive tower that i couldn't unlock with maxed-out lockpick at Rogue level 2 AND a natural 20. we had to leave it.
I don't know what edition yer playing, but for 3e, the DC's for locks are 20 for very simple locks, 25 for average locks, 30 for good locks, and 40 for amazing locks. I'd hope a tower is locked with something better than a very simple lock.

also, there was the Goblin treasure hoard but the amulet was actually in a random cabinet somewhere. WHY would Goblins put it there???
Why do goblins carry wet fur? They do a lot of things that don't make any sense. Anyway, you found a treasure hoard and an amulet, but you're still finding something to complain about?

those are my personal experiences with that DM. so i ask...am i just weak or is the DM too unreasonable?
This DM sounds way too unreasonable. I don't even know why he tries. I think you should take over DMing. You will obviously do a much better job than him.
 


Thank you for using paragraphs. Next time do you think you could also throw some more capitals in there, too?

I'm not trying to criticize just to criticize - honestly, it makes it difficult for me to follow. I'm willing to put in the work for e.e. cummings, but not a forum post on ENWorld.
 

I am a Rat Bastard DM. A Rat Bastard DM has no qualms about putting PCs in situations that seem un-winnable, nor giving PCs plenty of rope to hang themselves. A Rat Bastard DM makes the PCs squirm.

BUT, a Rat Bastard DM does it to highten the players' experience.

Your DM does not appear to be a Rat Bastard; he just seems like a jerk.

Allow me to elaborate:

our group is mostly composed of beginners. however, the DM expects us to have the instincts and experience of long-time players.

also, when we're taking a long time to figure out a solution to problems (for whatever reason), he tends to get mocking and sarcastic because HE (and/or his other experienced friends) would have long solved that situatition.

There's nothing wrong with expecting your PCs to use creativity to overcome seemingly impossible situations, but the mocking indicates that that isn't really his expectation, at all. Rather, it seems as if he expects what he gets, and wants to illustrate his other group's superiority by highlighting your inferiority.

and, sadly, he likes to go on several minute monologues even now and then about stuff that has no immediate relevance (if any to begin with). the most frequent of which i know of is about the average population of different towns. he must've mentioned this one at least 3 times since i've played with him.

Again, it seems as if he really just wants to make sure that everyone at the table knows that he knows things. As I will discuss later, the power of knowledge seems to be a theme with this guy.

in combat, he's nitpicky about pointless stuff. for example :

DM : Which Goblin do you attack?
Me : (with my bow) The closest one.
DM : That's not specific enough.
Me : O.o fine...Goblin number 1.
DM : Dude, i shouldn't have to tell you that you have to choose betwen the melee Goblins and the ranged Goblins. you have to make sure you know this and if you can't understand my subtle hints, it's your problem.
Me : (to myself) are you :):):):)ing serious???

As an aside, if someone feels the need to point out that they are being subtle (subtlety, by the way, is a very useful DM tool), they are missing the point of using it in the first place.

But that is not central to the point. Here, again, the DM is using knowledge (or lack thereof) as an opportunity belittle his opponents (that is, you). Which brings up another important point. This guy seems to view the role of the DM as purely adversarial.

the rest of the fights, we almost always start toe-to-toe with the enemy, making my archery Rogue entirely POINTLESS. i can only depend on my Rapier and hope i get criticals because i have no AB worth talking about.

If you're playing 3.X (as I think you are), Weapon Finesse (or Point Blank Shot) should help. You should go out of your way to set up look-out positions and ambushes as a group, especially out of the dungeon. If your DM is fair, this should, at the very least, give you a few encounters that start at range. If your DM is not fair--well, you'll know it soon enough!

first campaign, he takes over some of my roleplay moments. i ell him that even if i blow at it, i'd like to do my own roleplay so i can hopefully improve. pretty much ignored.

Don't ask permission to roleplay. Just do it. If he's actually running your character, I suggest you give him the character sheet and have him roll the dice, as well. Then get some popcorn and watch the show. This is a classic foible of the DM who is under the misconception that this is his game.

the party meets up, we get out of town and about two encounters in, we get chased by Frost Giants...at level 1.

Depending on the circumstances, this might be okay. Were you given warning that you were straying into very dangerous territory? Was there even a slim chance to eke out some sort of victory in the situation?

luckily, we escape. we ended up in an underground cavern and because the DM wouldn't give us any advice, half the party almost drowned in ice-cold water. we could have taken 20 but since we didn't ask him, he didn't tell us.

luckily, we survived that too (he gave us 100 xp for surviving a danger we created ourselves). we end up in a Dwarven Kingdom. during a mission for a dwarven mine, we get captured by Drows because we didn't specify we were Silent Moving.

again, luckily, the prison we were in was falling apart so we got out.

Well, first of all, you can only take 20 on a skill check when there are no consequences for failure. But, nevermind that. This gets back to the knowledge=power theme. This guy seems to get off by providing information, or, rather, being asked for information. It also seems as if this guy enjoys being the reason you guys get out of jams--your benefactor. If he truly believes that you all put yourselves in these messes (he might be right, to some extent), he should give you all the opportunity to find your own way out.

later, in the main city, we learn (too late) that we need a pass to even BE in there. it's possible we should have not told them we didn't have a pass but still, we had no way of knowing this at ALL. no one told us and we had no reason to suspect we needed one...until the innkeeper called the guards on our ass.

the rest of the campaign was us getting carried to jail and publicly executed. he also spent a few hours on this sequence. which means we spent the REST of the session jerking off because there was NOTHING we could really do. hell, i just said **** it and was doing intimidation checks for the lulz.

If you really had no reason to suspect anything, this illustrates the knowledge=power theme better than anything, yet. He has the knowledge, you don't, now you get to sit through several hours of getting executed. Now you're dead, ha ha!

second campaign. we have to clear a mansion of undeads. after a while, we get to the source and what do we discover? a Lich. in spite of my inexperience, i had decided this was NOT worth it, turned around and RAN. heck, one of the players lost his character right there. lost their soul to it. the Paladin made a brave charge and after a few rounds, the Lich just teleported away and all was well again.

a while after, we just left the region, got ambushed by way more bandit than we could handle (7 to 1 ratio), were left naked (except for a stick i found) and peniless. we walked to a nearby town where we went to a church an asked for charity. turns out the priest fetched a few guards to kick our ass (luckily we won). apparently the particular deity didn't like us or something. we dropped this campaign altogether.

Kind of surprised you even started it.

third campaign. we have to solve some mystery about people going nuts for no reason. some of his experienced friends have joined our group of beginners. since they're used to playing DnD, they take the spotlight and the DM never does anything to involve ANYONE else. which means i spend most of the time jerking off. eventually we trace the source to some tower. we tried to distract a group of Kobolds by lighting a tent on fire from a distance. ALL the Kobolds charged STRAIGHT at us immediately. luckily, we survived. except that in the next session, the quest was "completed" by a couple of newly introduced players.

we later travelled to another town, got a quest to go into a mausoleum. however, whenever we approached the mausoleum, an entire HORDE of zombies came at us. even the DM admitted he screwed up on that one. the next few encounters consisted of monsters that, while relatively fragile, could ORKO us with 3 attacks per monster. there was also some "recorded flashback" sequence that held no obvious meaning. then we fought a boss that could ORKO us except it wasn't fragile.

that quest was dropped too. mostly because the DM couldn't keep the whole group in sync.

That's not surprising, if you were a mixed group of players he respected and players he did not (as indicated in the start of your post).

current quest. he sends us at a goblin base to fetch a merchant's family amulet. he sends us to a left-right choice with no real indication of what leads where. then we get to a base and he eventually told us to check for a secret entrance because we couldn't find any obvious way in. we get in and eventually find the amulet. on the way, we got stuck in a magically trapped room (the ONLY room in the ENTIRE base with any magic) that required our sorcerer i think FIVE successful rolls in a ROW to merely FIND the source of the magic. in the meantime, i got knocked to 0 HP by an aberration creature. i really wonder why the goblins never got stuck in there...

there are other buildings we tried to explore. one was the sleeping quarters for the goblins with a high level DC that i BARELY managed to lockpick (you'd think one of the goblins we killed would have the keys to their own SLEEPING QUARTERS). there wasn't even anything valuable in there. then there was a massive tower that i couldn't unlock with maxed-out lockpick at Rogue level 2 AND a natural 20. we had to leave it.

also, there was the Goblin treasure hoard but the amulet was actually in a random cabinet somewhere. WHY would Goblins put it there???

those are my personal experiences with that DM. so i ask...am i just weak or is the DM too unreasonable?

It kind of sounds like you want to give DMing a try. You should. You already know some of the pitfalls to avoid.

I've gotta say, this "experienced" DM sounds pretty inexperienced to me. These types of power-trips are the kind of stuff I used to do when I ran games in high-school (lo these many years ago).

I got better. Which is why I mentioned that Rat Bastard stuff at the beginning. The thing about it is; you've gotta keep 'em coming back. And to do that; you have to drop the antagonistic arrogance and acknowledge that it is not the DM's game; it is everybody's.

If you run a game and the PCs find themselves in a situation that sucks, but the players think it's awesome, you'll know you've done something right.
 

epicbob said:
DM : Dude, i shouldn't have to tell you that you have to choose betwen the melee Goblins and the ranged Goblins. you have to make sure you know this and if you can't understand my subtle hints, it's your problem.
Me : (to myself) are you ing serious???
Consider this your superhero backstory initiation by fire into DMhood!

I think the DM for campaign #4 should be epicbob ;)
 

Honestly I'd like to give this DM the benefit of the doubt and say that he is just used to a more experienced group, but I really think he just likes being "THE DUNGEON MASTER" *insert maniacal laughter here and dramatic dun-dun-DUNs! here* and likes to "beat" the party. Although I could be wrong.
 

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