Is this offensive?

[Oryan77]

Nice subtle attack there.

Subtle? Nope, I was being pretty blunt I thought. But then again, only the thin-skinned people will get hurt about me stating the obvious & feel the need to reply to a butthead like me about it.

Well, we can't all be as good real roleplayers as you. No, wait, real old-schoolers do it like diaglo said - 3d6 in order.

Thanks man. Although I never suggested that I was a great roleplayer, I did spend 12 years at a Buddhist temple as a student under the wing of the High Monk Grandmaster Lih Pow of Taiwan. Not only did he teach me that rolling 3d6 in order was wrong & not fun & that Diaglo is also wrong & not fun, but he also taught me that there's 3 kinds of people in this world; those who can count, & those who can't.

 

[S'mon]

Let's think of a women-dominated event like, oh, say gymnastics. Guess who dominates there?

Men compete against women in gymnastics?


BTW this thread is the first place I've seen it claimed that Strength has no relation, or only a weak relation, to muscle power. Everything else I've read says that it's basically a 1:1 correlation. There are a few 3e skills based off STR where other factors are important (eg Climb, Swim), but that's more to do with problems in the Skill system. D&D STR primarily models how hard you hit in combat, that's a function of muscle power.

 

[S'mon]

No, it doesn't offend me at all. I think that it can be a nice house rule that makes an additional facet of a character more important to gameplay. But then, I'm of the general opinion that diversity is something to celebrate rather than attempting to cast everyone in the same mold...

I guess you didn't get the memo on the real intended meaning of 'celebrate diversity!', then.

 

[mmu1]

Let's think of a women-dominated event like, oh, say gymnastics. Guess who dominates there? Women are oriented to the event because it plays to their strengths (flexibility and small size in this case) and the effect is magnified by more women competing.

Men's and women's gymnastics aren't even the same sport... And men's gymnastics is probably the most upper body strength oriented sport, ever.

 

[Felix]

Men's and women's gymnastics aren't even the same sport... And men's gymnastics is probably the most upper body strength oriented sport, ever.

I know the women don't compete on the rings; do they ever practice it? Because that iron cross looks kinda STR oriented...

 

[Sparafucile]

. . . have less leisure time during their child-rearing years . . .

If the point of your post is atheletic participation, why exactly is this being thrown in there. There are many men in this world who take on the primary caregiver role, and that number is growing every day.

I will probably be one of them, if my wife has anything to say about it (and I'll be happy). You can't generalize caregiver status by gender anymore. . . . I'm not offended, mind you . . . it just isn't accurate.

Just sayin'. Carry on.

 

[pawsplay]

Men compete against women in gymnastics?


BTW this thread is the first place I've seen it claimed that Strength has no relation, or only a weak relation, to muscle power. Everything else I've read says that it's basically a 1:1 correlation.

A heavy warhorse has a Str of 18. How much energy output do you think it's whole body can generate? Do you think there is any human being, anywhere, that can actually produce the amount of work (in physical terms) equal to a heavy warhorse? Yet by the rules, something like a half of a percent of ordinary humans in their early twenties should be able to match the performance of a typical warhorse. I think that's pretty strong evidence that Str can't be measured in joules.

Str is a game statistic, and more than anything else, measures results. It does not matter if you have muscle mass, adrenaline, sheer determination, or plot immunity, what matters is if you can break down a door or kill an orc.

Given that barmaids, noble's daughters, female merchants, housewives, and the like are unlikely to have their highest score in Str anyway, putting a modifier will just exaggerate the differences and you will end up with results that are decidedly unrealistic.

 

[pawsplay]

I will probably be one of them, if my wife has anything to say about it (and I'll be happy). You can't generalize caregiver status by gender anymore. . . . I'm not offended, mind you . . . it just isn't accurate.

Just sayin'. Carry on.

Even if you assume gender parity has been achieved, which it hasn't, nine months is a long time to be out of competition.

 

[Ipissimus]

I guess you didn't get the memo on the real intended meaning of 'celebrate diversity!', then.

-beats head against the wall- Too true. Frustratingly true. Yes, I got the memo, but I rejected it out of hand and shot the messenger.

Personally, if my group decided to house rule this, I wouldn't push the modifiers beyond +1 no matter how 'offensive' some people seem to find odd stat modifiers. No, an odd stat bonus doesn't necessarily give you an extra plus on your modifier but then really modeling the slight differences in gender is something best represented by a net difference between the two genders.

For example, if I decided to give males a +1 Str and females a -1 Str, the net difference is +/-2 between the sexes on average. But it also allows the difference to be negligible to gameplay when it comes to ability modifiers and represents the small difference at the high end better while still allowing scope for exceptional individuals.

The other problem is, if you start doing this, you have to consider the differences between sexes across race as well... though the Drow set the precedent for this. But still, it starts to become alot of work for not so much reward and, maybe, a bit of a headache.

 

[tenkar]

I think the poll options are overly simplistic. "Offends me personally" did we have to set that with italics? Where is the third option "Doesn't offend me personally but I can see how it might offend others"?

So, I voted "Offends me personally" even tho it doesn't, but it is closer to the unlisted third option which would have been my vote.

I wouldn't use gender stat modifiers in my game because it "might" offend or annoy someone. Gaming is supposed to be fun... if you make the game less fun for a subset of gamers you are doing all gamers a disservice.

Well, that and I've known quite a few female cops that could definitely kick my butt, and I would choose to have as a partner when the feces hits the fan over many of my male coworkers. They might not be "the norm", but then neither are adventuring parties.