Is this really CR 16?

[Runestar]

Then I suppose its effectiveness also depends on what sort of counter-measures your party has. With the right eq/roster of spell-ups, it is possible for your party to be highly resistant/outright immune to a variety of otherwise debilitating effects, but only if they do go that route.

For my previous 3e games, yeah, heroes' feast is pretty much standard issue at lv11+. Immunity to fear/poison for the entire party is just too tempting to pass up.

I guess this just reduces it to a simple melee bruiser. But give it improved rapidstrike, improved multiattack and some other useful combat feats and it should still be able to give your party a run for its money.

Then again, 380 isn't really a lot of hp, is it...

 

[akbearfoot]

A psion could hit it with an augmented Ego Whip ....Take several d4s charisma damage....save for half....thank you, come again

If they are 11th+ and dont have heroes feast up every day something is wrong. If they dont have that buff, then the poison could very likely TPK the party. With a +62 grapple modifier the target either has freedom of movement or he is grappled.

The scorpoins smart option is to grapple the 2 melee types with each claw at -20, then pin them every round while it stings the spell casters to death, then it can take its time on the melee guys.

With SR 25 its got a 50/50 shot at avoiding spells from 15th level casters.

380 hitpoints is a lot when nobody gets to power attack him.

 

[s-dub]

What if the party has no cleric =P

 

[Runestar]

Draconomicon has this feat which gives dragons sr = HD. So for said scorpion, this gives it sr40...virtual magic immunity...

Frightful presence is interesting as well, the DC should be good enough even with its cha penalty, but as noted, immunity to fear effects is a given.

Any other interesting feats it can take?

 

[Shin Okada]

Draconomicon has this feat which gives dragons sr = HD. So for said scorpion, this gives it sr40...virtual magic immunity...

Yeah. But when supplements like Draconomicon is used in a play group, you should expect that PC mages are using either Assay Spell Resistance or conjuration attack spells such as various Orb spells, which completely ignore SR. So high SR may be not that overpowered.

Frightful presence is interesting as well, the DC should be good enough even with its cha penalty, but as noted, immunity to fear effects is a given.

Any other interesting feats it can take?

Large and in Charge (Draconomicon) is a good feat for big melee brutes with longer reach.

 

[Jack Simth]

A psion could hit it with an augmented Ego Whip ....Take several d4s charisma damage....save for half....thank you, come again

If they are 11th+ and dont have heroes feast up every day something is wrong. If they dont have that buff, then the poison could very likely TPK the party. With a +62 grapple modifier the target either has freedom of movement or he is grappled.

The scorpoins smart option is to grapple the 2 melee types with each claw at -20, then pin them every round while it stings the spell casters to death, then it can take its time on the melee guys.

With SR 25 its got a 50/50 shot at avoiding spells from 15th level casters.

380 hitpoints is a lot when nobody gets to power attack him.

Especially considering an Ubercharger build has severe issues too (unless it's got a ring of Freedom of Movement or some such) - as the thing has Combat Reflexes, a lot of reach, and his first hit causes the Ubercharger to be grappled. The Ubercharger wins initiative... and it doesn't help.

So the general consensus seems to be "yes, it is CR 16, give or take" - cool.

 

[s-dub]

I really depends on both the circumstances.

If the PC's have a few rounds to prepare (since it's far to big to hide effectively) it will be easy. With no time to prepare it will depend on party composition and spells up / prepped.

I know that my current party would probably get basted by it at level 16 but my previous min-maxed party would steam-roll it.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

A psion could hit it with an augmented Ego Whip ....Take several d4s charisma damage....save for half....thank you, come again

If they are 11th+ and dont have heroes feast up every day something is wrong. If they dont have that buff, then the poison could very likely TPK the party. With a +62 grapple modifier the target either has freedom of movement or he is grappled.

Actually, a high damage character with close quarters fighting has a decent shot at beating the grapple check. My halfling mutt has hit a grapple check in the mid fifties on CQF attacks at 12th level with a longsword. Remove the deliberately suboptimal halfling melee character element and tack on four more levels of buffs, strength, greater magic weapon, better magic weapon, and power attack, and you could get the grapple check up there. Now, once the character is grappled, it probably isn't getting away without magic, but there are quite a few magical options for escape.

My take is that CR 16 is probably about right... but it is a CR 16 melee brute. As always with high CR creatures and particularly with highly specialized high CR creatures, it will often go down like a chump and will sometimes destroy parties.

 

[4eHater]

The CR system of 3E was never meant to be exact science. It's a mere guideline. Personally, I believe the CR is just about right.

If you realize the power a group of four 16th-level characters possess and can accomplish, this creature is just the right challenge as long as it's the only creature they'll be fighting. Especially since at such a level, the PCs have an easier time escaping such a foe and buffing themselves up later against it. I'd say a group of four 16th-level PCs with at least 75% of their resources intact can still take this on.

At those levels, potions of neutralize poison or the party's healer possessing the spell or magic items to neutralize poison is common. Lesser restoration magic is also common. As long as the fighter continues to attack this creature, the group would only need to worry about healing just the warrior. Heck, a touch of idiocy can wipe this out easily, dropping it's 5 Intelligence straight down to 0 in one spell (assuming the SR is overcome, but at +16 andonly SR 25, easy chance).

Now if you min-max this creature (such as the suggested Draconomicon feats I've heard here), then it'll obviously be at a CR much higher than 16. As is the case with anything you min-max.

I've had hands on experience with a group of four 13th-level characters that can take this on: Human Paladin 6/Fighter 2/Cavalier 5 with an awakened phrenic dire wolf mount, a Human Cleric 12/Divine Disciple 1, an Aasimar Monk 12, and a Moon Elf Psychic Warrior 12/Ancestral Avenger 1 played in the City of the Spider Queen adventure. They were wiping the floor with nearly every creature they came upon thanks to the way they chose and combined their abilities, feats, and magic/psionics.

If the team works well together, a group of four 16th-level characters shouldn't have much problem with this beast you concocted.

 

[gnfnrf]

At those levels, potions of neutralize poison or the party's healer possessing the spell or magic items to neutralize poison is common. Lesser restoration magic is also common. As long as the fighter continues to attack this creature, the group would only need to worry about healing just the warrior. Heck, a touch of idiocy can wipe this out easily, dropping it's 5 Intelligence straight down to 0 in one spell (assuming the SR is overcome, but at +16 andonly SR 25, easy chance).

The penalty imposed by Touch of Idiocy is a (minimum 1) type penalty, so it would just make the guy about as smart as a lizard. Which wouldn't really stop him from eating you.

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gnfnrf