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Is this the correct way that dragons "Alternate form"

well, Cleon ... I've searched my books and come up with two possibilities that I was reading. An extra alternate form feat (in a DragonLance book) which is pretty ho-hum ... unless you've want your chromatic dragon to assume a humanoid form. There was also a Draconic polymorph spell that gave the user a +8 str and +2 con for polymorphed physical stats (that was in the Draconomicon).

the on-line source I found was thread from 2002 ... started by ME! I read over it and then looked at the thread originator was like "hey ... HEY, that's me!" Old age is awesome, it's like discovering something new that's really old everyday ... (only 41, but I'm sure my 5 year old adds like 250 or something to that.)

Wolf

ps: old ENworld thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?29109-Dragons-and-Polymorph-BADD

pps: If I were a dragon I'd seriously consider polymorphing into an ogre or ogre-magi

That Alternate Form Synergy in the D&D Wiki I linked to gives the same stat boost as your Improved Changer, except it's potentially better as it's an "additional modifier" rather than "which ever is better", so if it turn into a humanoid with good physical modifiers like, say, a goliath, it can get even higher stats.
 

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My first reaction is to say I'd go with the 'Special' option on the Alternate form synergy and take the better of the two bonuses.

My second reaction would be to gauge where the campaign/adventure is ... in an epic/20+ game I might allow it.

Overall I'd simply want a polymorphed dragon (either as protagonist or antagonist) to be more impressive when it is shape changed ... the 10 str/dex/con thing leaves something to be desired.
 

My first reaction is to say I'd go with the 'Special' option on the Alternate form synergy and take the better of the two bonuses.

My second reaction would be to gauge where the campaign/adventure is ... in an epic/20+ game I might allow it.

Overall I'd simply want a polymorphed dragon (either as protagonist or antagonist) to be more impressive when it is shape changed ... the 10 str/dex/con thing leaves something to be desired.

Yes, I would have no problem doing that in a game I ran, even if the rules-as-written disagree. Giving it base human stats just makes it way too weedy.

Even giving it the stats of the Medium sized Young Silver Dragon would be better (Str 17, Dex 10, Con 15), or using the Changes to Statistics by Size Table to shrink the Dragon from Colossal to Medium (which'd give it Str 11, Dex 14, Con 14).

The Alternate Form Synergy feat gives this dragon decent stats for the human form - Str 27, Dex 10, Con 20. (The original dragon's bonuses of +16/+0/+10 from Str 43/Dex 10/Con 30 added to a base human's scores of 10-11 in everything). It's just not "official", if that means anything to you.
 



agreed, an angel, great gold wyrm, some big bad demon/devil ... ought to be able to shape change or polymorph and still be pretty tough with out having to revert to its true form.
 

it's a slight abuse of the rules, but I think I'd allow dragons to use the half-dragon template if they took a standard humanoid form (elf, orc, dwarf, etc) ... eh, probably any form.

ie: letting an adult bronze dragon polymorph into a Half-dragon dog, all dog looks but Str, Dex, Con, and natural armor get the template boost.
 

it's a slight abuse of the rules, but I think I'd allow dragons to use the half-dragon template if they took a standard humanoid form (elf, orc, dwarf, etc) ... eh, probably any form.

ie: letting an adult bronze dragon polymorph into a Half-dragon dog, all dog looks but Str, Dex, Con, and natural armor get the template boost.

So just add the NA and physical ability adjustments to the animal/humanoid?

If you go that route you might as well add the Half-Dragon immunities as well.
 

haven't paid to much attention to polymorph ... but doesn't the creature casting/using the spell/ability keeps its immunities already?
 

Pathfinder Young Silver Dragon Template Class Paladin

YOUNG SILVER DRAGON. TEMPLATE CLASS PALADIN CR 13
XP 25,600
LG Large dragon (cold) Template Class Paladin
Init +5; Senses dragon senses; Perception +17
Aura of Resolve allies within 10 feet gain a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against charm effects.
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AC 22, touch 10, flat-footed 21; (+1 Dex, +12 natural, –1 size)
Smite Evil AC 27, touch 15, flat-footed 26; (+1 Dex, +12 natural, –1 size, +5 smite evil)
hp 104 (11d12+33)
Fort +15, Ref +13, Will +17
Immune acid, cold, paralysis, sleep
Weaknesses vulnerability to fire
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Speed 40 ft., fly 200 ft. (average); cloudwalking, graceful flight
Melee bite +18(2d6+10), 2 claws +17 (1d8+7), 2 wings +15 (1d6+3), tail +15 (1d8+10)
1/day Smite Evil bite +23 (2d6+21), 2 claws +22 (1d8+18), 2 wings +20 (1d6+14), tail +20 (1d8+21)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft. (10 ft. with bite)
Special Attacks breath weapon (40-ft. cone, DC 18, 6d8 cold), paralyzing breath, smite evil
Special Ability 1/day Lay on Hands (heal 5d6 hps)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 11th)
At will—detect evil
Spells Known (CL 1st)
1st (4/day)—alarm, true strike
0 (at will)—detect magic, light, message, read magic
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Str 25, Dex 12, Con 17, Int 16, Wis 17, Cha 20
Base Atk +11; CMB +19; CMD 30 (34 vs. trip)
Feats Hover, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Multiattack, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (bite)
Skills Acrobatics +12, Diplomacy +19, Fly +13, Heal +17, Intimidate +19, Know. (local) +17, Perception +17, Sence Motive +17, Spellcraft +17
Languages Auran, Common, Draconic, Giant
SQ change shape
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Divine Grace (Su) A template class paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all Saving Throws.
Lay On Hands (Su) Once per day a template class paladin can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch, healing 1d6 hit points for every 2 HD the template class paladin possesses.
Smite Evil (Su) Once per day, a template class paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the template class paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the template class paladin adds her Cha bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her hit die to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite. If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per HD the template class paladin possesses. Regardless of the target, smite evil attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.
In addition, while smite evil is in effect, the template class paladin gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by the target of the smite. If the template class paladin targets a creature that is not evil, the smite is wasted with no effect.
Aura of Resolve (Su) At 10 hit die, a template class paladin is immune to charm spells and spell-like abilities. Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against charm effects.
This ability functions only while the template class paladin is conscious, not if she is unconscious or dead.
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Change Shape (Su) A silver dragon can assume any animal or humanoid form three times per day as if using polymorph.
If the Animal form assumed has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 60 feet, fly 60 feet (good maneuverability), swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, grab, pounce, and trip.
If the humanoid form assumed has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, and swim 30 feet.
Cloudwalking (Su) A very young or older silver dragon can tread on clouds or fog as though on solid ground.
Fog Vision (Ex) A juvenile or older silver dragon can see perfectly well in fog and clouds.
Graceful Flight (Ex) A young or older silver dragon's aerial maneuverability is one step better than normal.
Paralyzing Breath (Su) Instead of a cone of cold, a silver dragon can breathe a cone of paralyzing gas. Creatures within the cone must succeed on a Fortitude save or be paralyzed for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per age category of the dragon.
 

Into the Woods

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