Is this wrong?

megamania · Jun 6, 2005

It seems you are VERY aware of the abilities you have using their system and the abuses you can render to it / them.

Yeah- you suck.

By posting here you are mocking them and the laws involved.

Greylock · Jun 6, 2005

megamania said:
It seems you are VERY aware of the abilities you have using their system and the abuses you can render to it / them.

Yeah- you suck.

By posting here you are mocking them and the laws involved.

Bravo, well said.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Ethics are being thrown out the window whenever some internet issues are involved.

IamTheTest · Jun 6, 2005

I dont think its wrong unless you do something mean to his network. In my mind its like using the shade from his trees...it makes no difference if youre nice.

Aus_Snow · Jun 6, 2005

Heh. I just wanted to gleefully state for the record that this connection (ADSL 1500) has *never* gone down. It's up 24/7/365.

Hehehe.

Oh, and wrong? Nah. Secure yer networks people. Otherwise they're fair game.

Umbran · Jun 6, 2005

Aus_Snow said:
Oh, and wrong? Nah. Secure yer networks people. Otherwise they're fair game.

Just because the door is unlocked does not make it okay for you to enter the house unbidded.

They are not fair game, either in the legal or the ethical sense. "I can, therefore I will" is a really lousy way to treat your fellow human beings. You don't want people walking into your house and taking your stuff because they can? Then don't do it to them.

Its the simple Golden Rule, people. Shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

John Q. Mayhem · Jun 6, 2005

Also, darn near all libraries nowadays have pretty good internet computers. All of the three within a reasonable drive of my house have nice fast cable. You have no excuse.

reveal · Jun 6, 2005

I've never understood the mentality that simply because a computer network is unsecured that its owners "deserve" to be hacked. It's like saying that if you leave your car unlocked in a parking lot, it "deserves" to get stolen. That makes absolutely no sense. Yes, it's not a good thing to do (leaving your car unlocked or leaving your network unsecured) but that doesn't mean it should get misused in any way. If you've ever made a mistake in your life, you have no right to "teach someone a lesson" for making an error in judgement.

I've always felt that because a network is intangible, it's not as "important" as something that is tangible, like a car, house, etc. People seem to feel it's their right to abuse these intagiblities and feel no remorse. But take that same opinion and apply it to a tangible object and they usually feel different.

Aus_Snow · Jun 6, 2005

Umbran said:
Just because the door is unlocked does not make it okay for you to enter the house unbidded.

They are not fair game, either in the legal or the ethical sense. "I can, therefore I will" is a really lousy way to treat your fellow human beings. You don't want people walking into your house and taking your stuff because they can? Then don't do it to them.

Its the simple Golden Rule, people. Shouldn't be that hard to figure out.

Well.

To each their own and all that, good fellow.

To explain my own position more clearly, it's like this: as long as someone isn't costing me money, compromising my privacy/anonymity unbidden, reducing my ability to communicate/work/play/learn, doing (other) illegal things on my line, or otherwise p***ing me off, then they're quite welcome to use a slice of any bandwidth I happen to be using. . . if they're able! Bully for them n' stuff.

If. on the other hand, a person was to tick me off by going beyond er, 'polite, harmless misappropriation' or um, 'sharing without exactly asking', then I'd take whatever steps were necessary.

Mystery Man · Jun 6, 2005

Where I work we've had two major attacks, one was some punk kid that used a floppy disk on a workstation to do a DOS attack and the other was a guy I traced all the way back to Amsterdam who hacked one of our servers to share DVD rips. I took measures to stop him and watched the bastard try to get back in for months before he finally gave up.

Doing what I do and knowing what I know, no network is ever 100% safe. For instance I have this crap eating part time job and it's appalling how easy it would be for me to bring their network to its knees 50 different ways one of which I wouldn't even need to touch a keyboard! It comes down to a huge sense of personal responsibility and following the golden rule, I sure as heck wouldn't want someone doing that to me.

Unfortunately there are those out there who don't care, or they think its cool. In some groups it's a way to achieve status. This is a fact of life in this day and age and no amount of complaining about it is going to change that all you can do is take the best preventative measures you can.

Aus_Snow · Jun 6, 2005

Mystery Man said:
Where I work we've had two major attacks, one was some punk kid that used a floppy disk on a workstation to do a DOS attack and the other was a guy I traced all the way back to Amsterdam who hacked one of our servers to share DVD rips. I took measures to stop him and watched the bastard try to get back in for months before he finally gave up.

Doing what I do and knowing what I know, no network is ever 100% safe. For instance I have this crap eating part time job and it's appalling how easy it would be for me to bring their network to its knees 50 different ways one of which I wouldn't even need to touch a keyboard! It comes down to a huge sense of personal responsibility and following the golden rule, I sure as heck wouldn't want someone doing that to me.

Unfortunately there are those out there who don't care, or they think its cool. In some groups it's a way to achieve status. This is a fact of life in this day and age and no amount of complaining about it is going to change that all you can do is take the best preventative measures you can.

I don't think you were posting any of that in response to my own most recent post, but either way, I'll just say that I agree 100% with your points there. Truly.

It's all a matter of where you draw your own lines, according to your beliefs and preferences, which of course are born from your experiences.

I've had to deal with the kind of would-be attackers you describe (and the like) myself, and I'm no more keen on them than are most other people, I would say. I do care about that kind of behaviour. And as to it being cool? In no way. I just don't place it in the same basket as catching a free ride and doing nobody any harm. YMMV.