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Is too small of a sandbox the same as railroading?
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<blockquote data-quote="Heathen72" data-source="post: 5125771" data-attributes="member: 7029"><p>It all sounds pretty disfunctional to me. Why are you even running a game for them, and why are they even playing in your game? </p><p></p><p>I would say give up and go play on a playstation, frankly, because you seem to have reached a stage where your players objective appears to be "sabotage the game if you don't get our way" and you are pulling out the "you will play my way" big stick. Neither of you seem willing enough to compromise enough to sort it out in a reasonable way. </p><p></p><p>If you are determined to go on, you need to compromise, and I would suggest the following approaches:</p><p></p><p>1) Figure out what your players want, and give it to them. Ask them ahead of time "what do you want to do?". Tell them that you are not a strong improvisor and you need prep time. Or simply ask them at the end of a session, where they are thinking of heading next session, and try to work to that. Let them do some of the work.</p><p></p><p>2) Hooks are more than just "interesting events that happen in town". Like fishhooks, they need bait. Look into your players background and draw on them. You just need to it make it a little personal. If it is not enough that the orcs are approaching from the west, for instance, mention that the last time the orcs attacked (a generation ago) they killed the PC's grandfather, which is why the family, once prospering merchants, now live in the slums. </p><p></p><p>That said, if you are indeed a GMFORPOWERGAMERS the players might not have (or care about) their backgrounds. In this case, they probably have no connection to the world - you might have to make it <em>really</em> personal to motivate them. If they just don't care about anything that happens to the world, then just have the orcs attack the town, including them. At least then you can all enjoy the action. </p><p></p><p>3) The final option is to "cheat it" by making it look like it's all their idea. Prepare as you had before, and prepare a few extra things on the outskirts of town, and then, when you get to the session, say "OK. Where do you want to go, what do you want to do? I will do my best to incorporate it." </p><p></p><p>Try responding to what they ask you to GMing on the fly - you might do really well - but once you have done that, subtly introduce one of your ideas into the game. If you are lucky (and this happens more often than you might think) they might stumble into an area that you have set up already. As long as you don't make it obvious that you have planned it all ahead and don't drive them towards anything, they will think you are responding to their idea. </p><p></p><p>GM's sometimes misread what the players are objecting to. You might think that they players don't want to play in the <em><span style="color: Red">adventures</span></em> that you have written, when what they may actually be objecting to is the <em><span style="color: red">roles</span></em> you have drawn up for them. They might not want to be the heroes protecting the town, or intrepid adventurers, or mystery solvers. They might want to be bankrobbers! Or bounty hunters. Or mercenaries. If you let them drive the game for a bit, you can figure out what drives them, and then hook into <em>that</em> when writing up your adventures. </p><p></p><p>So if you follow option 3, and the players decide that they want to rob a bank, go with the flow, and do your best to run a bank robbery. If they fail, they can be put in jail, and find that the only way to avoid execution is to do one of your quests. Alternatively (and preferably) they succeed, and find a secret treasure map to the crypts, or to the mysterious cave no-one ever saw before, or to the pirates treasure, or the deed to a local farm (which they now own, and which is being attacked by goblins) etc. Or even better, you go away and write more 'caper' stories about crimes and robberies to entertain them. Or decide you aren't interested in running that sort of game, and find another group to GM.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Heathen72, post: 5125771, member: 7029"] It all sounds pretty disfunctional to me. Why are you even running a game for them, and why are they even playing in your game? I would say give up and go play on a playstation, frankly, because you seem to have reached a stage where your players objective appears to be "sabotage the game if you don't get our way" and you are pulling out the "you will play my way" big stick. Neither of you seem willing enough to compromise enough to sort it out in a reasonable way. If you are determined to go on, you need to compromise, and I would suggest the following approaches: 1) Figure out what your players want, and give it to them. Ask them ahead of time "what do you want to do?". Tell them that you are not a strong improvisor and you need prep time. Or simply ask them at the end of a session, where they are thinking of heading next session, and try to work to that. Let them do some of the work. 2) Hooks are more than just "interesting events that happen in town". Like fishhooks, they need bait. Look into your players background and draw on them. You just need to it make it a little personal. If it is not enough that the orcs are approaching from the west, for instance, mention that the last time the orcs attacked (a generation ago) they killed the PC's grandfather, which is why the family, once prospering merchants, now live in the slums. That said, if you are indeed a GMFORPOWERGAMERS the players might not have (or care about) their backgrounds. In this case, they probably have no connection to the world - you might have to make it [I]really[/I] personal to motivate them. If they just don't care about anything that happens to the world, then just have the orcs attack the town, including them. At least then you can all enjoy the action. 3) The final option is to "cheat it" by making it look like it's all their idea. Prepare as you had before, and prepare a few extra things on the outskirts of town, and then, when you get to the session, say "OK. Where do you want to go, what do you want to do? I will do my best to incorporate it." Try responding to what they ask you to GMing on the fly - you might do really well - but once you have done that, subtly introduce one of your ideas into the game. If you are lucky (and this happens more often than you might think) they might stumble into an area that you have set up already. As long as you don't make it obvious that you have planned it all ahead and don't drive them towards anything, they will think you are responding to their idea. GM's sometimes misread what the players are objecting to. You might think that they players don't want to play in the [I][COLOR="Red"]adventures[/COLOR][/I] that you have written, when what they may actually be objecting to is the [I][COLOR="red"]roles[/COLOR][/I] you have drawn up for them. They might not want to be the heroes protecting the town, or intrepid adventurers, or mystery solvers. They might want to be bankrobbers! Or bounty hunters. Or mercenaries. If you let them drive the game for a bit, you can figure out what drives them, and then hook into [I]that[/I] when writing up your adventures. So if you follow option 3, and the players decide that they want to rob a bank, go with the flow, and do your best to run a bank robbery. If they fail, they can be put in jail, and find that the only way to avoid execution is to do one of your quests. Alternatively (and preferably) they succeed, and find a secret treasure map to the crypts, or to the mysterious cave no-one ever saw before, or to the pirates treasure, or the deed to a local farm (which they now own, and which is being attacked by goblins) etc. Or even better, you go away and write more 'caper' stories about crimes and robberies to entertain them. Or decide you aren't interested in running that sort of game, and find another group to GM. [/QUOTE]
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