Item Craftin question

[Radiating Gnome]

This came up in a recent game session:

In the DMG, in the description of magic items, it presents two things: the item's caster level, and the prerequisites to create the item.

But, literally reading the rules, and descriptions caster level and prerequisites, the caster level is NOT a requirement to craft the item.

Is that the way you read it/use it in your game?

-rg

 

[VixenofVenus]

For caster level to CRAFT the item, one only needs the appropriate spells, skills, and feats.

For instance, to create a magic weapon +1:

The wizard (arbatrary picking) needs Magic Weapon (spell), Craft (Weaponsmithing), and Craft Magic Arms and Armor (feat).

Or ... the wizard can also use a non-magic weapon that someone else crafted to make it magical.

Then they expend XP and gold as normal (although, I personally reduce the gold if they craft it or have the basic item already ... but I don't reduce it completely, and if they are crafting the item for someone elses use ... I let them choose to tell the other player that they must expend 3/4 of the XP themselves and the wizard only expends 1/4 the cost of XP they normally would).

But ... thats all you need.

The caster level in the book is just for who actually created that PARTICULAR weapon or item, not the requirements.

You could have as low as a 5th level caster make a +1 Magic Weapon (1 level of another class followed by 5 levels of a caster class ... taking Craft Magic Arms and Armor (feat) as the character's 6th level feat.)

 

[Datt]

You don't have to be a caster at all to CRAFT a magic weapon. My dwarf crafted a Masterwor battleaxe that he is having enchanted. It will turn out to be a magic weapon the he crafted, but not enchanted. Crafting and enchanting are two different things.

 

[Radiating Gnome]

Ooooh, thanks for that one. Semantic snots 1, Gnomes 0.

But I don't think I'm too far wrong for talking about crafting a magic item in terms of craft instead of enchant when the feat required is called craft [item], not enchant [item].

But, if you would prefer, we can talk about the required levels to ENCHANT a magic item.

Nevermind the problems of referring to just enchanting a magic item in a game that makes a distinction between enchantment and seven other varieties of magic items -- after all, enchantment is a very narrow field of magic in D&D.

I mean, do we also have to talk about the levels requried to transmute an item, to conjure an item?

But, really, thanks again.

-rg

 

[dcollins]

But, literally reading the rules, and descriptions caster level and prerequisites, the caster level is NOT a requirement to craft the item.

That's not correct. DMG p. 178: For non-potions/wands/scrolls, "the creator's caster level must be as high as the item's caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator's level)".

Designers have attenpted to hand-wave this rule away after the fact, but it's very explicit in the written rules. I play by the book, myself (and there are a number of reasons why that's further justified).

www.superdan.net/dndfaq2.html

 

[Radiating Gnome]

You've put a lot of work into that FAQ page.

I'm going to have to look at the section you're citing, but you make a very strong case.

I wonder how the magic crafting rules in Tome and Blood change that, if at all. Now I REALLY wish I had my books handy.

-rg

 

[Spatzimaus]

For instance, to create a magic weapon +1:

The wizard (arbatrary picking) needs Magic Weapon (spell), Craft (Weaponsmithing), and Craft Magic Arms and Armor (feat).

To make an armor or weapon with an Enhancement bonus, you explicitly need a caster level of 3xBonus. You do NOT need the spell Magic Weapon for weapons or Magic Vestment for armor. That's from previous editions.

Certain specific items also require a level of 2xBonus or 3xBonus (Bracers of Armor, for example). For most items requiring a spell, you just need to have caster level high enough to cast all the needed spells, but it's a bit vague, as dcollins pointed out.

 

[VixenofVenus]

Re: Re: Item Craftin question

That's not correct. DMG p. 178: For non-potions/wands/scrolls, "the creator's caster level must be as high as the item's caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator's level)".

Yes ... then go check the errata and look at all the magic items they SCREWED UP for caster level requirements.

It's easier to check:
- Can I cast the appropriate spells?
- Do I have the required feats?
- Do I have the required money?
- Do I have the required XP to expend?

IF you meet those requirements, then according to the rules, you can make the item.

Those are what the Item Creation rules say, and thats what I'll stick with. It isn't unbalancing, it's easier than even OPENING the DMG (one of the worst layed out books ever), and with that, you can create magic weapons and items DURING a session and it doesn't take more than 5 minutes. Why start flipping through the books and take an hour to create a +3 vorpal longsword of faerie fire?

And dude ... go read the article you linked about the rule ... the two DESIGNERS THEMSELVES said that you just need the minimum level for the feats and spells!!!

 

[dcollins]

Re: Re: Re: Item Craftin question

And dude ... go read the article you linked about the rule ... the two DESIGNERS THEMSELVES said that you just need the minimum level for the feats and spells!!!

If it wasn't clear, I wrote the article, so I'm pretty aware of what's in it.

The point is that the designer off-book comments can be rejected on the grounds that they explicitly contradict the written rules. If they want to change the rule (even they admit that it needs rewriting), then it must appear in errata to be official.

 

[VixenofVenus]

Well ... thats EXACTLY where I disagree with you (respectfully) ... official is just a word for me to poop on.

I have official.

Official is dumb.

The GM/DM makes the rules ... not some wacko off in ... I dunno ... Texas?