Item Creation

[dcollins]

You will note that none of the potions that grant skill bonuses have specific spells as prereqs. Instead, the have caster level prereqs, such as a Potion of Swimming.

Potions are a very narrow subset of magic items to be considering as examples. The "specialty potions" are idiosyncratic in being almost the only place in the DMG that doesn't require a spell requirement, and instead a higher-caster-level. And that only includes a half-dozen such skill enhancers.

Here are some other examples to consider:
Armor/Shield of Shadow, +10 to Hide, requires invisibility.
Armor/Shield of Silent Moves, +10 to Move Silently, requires silence.
Armor/Shield of Grease, +10 to to Escape Artist, requires grease.
Ring of Chameleon Power, +15 to Hide, requires invisibility.
Ring of Climbing, +10 to Climb, requires creator with 5 ranks in Climb.
Ring of Jumping, +30 to Jump, requires jump.
Ring of Swimming, +10 to Swim, requires creator with 5 ranks in Swim.
Boots of Elvenkind, +10 to Move Silently, creator must be an elf.
Boots of Striding and Springing, +10 to Jump, requires jump.
Cloak of Elvenkind, +10 to Hide, requires invisibility and creator must be elven.

(Stopped search at "D" in the Wondrous Items of the DMG.)

Just from the above search of the core rules, it's clear that the majority of skill-enhancing items require something aside from simple caster level (usually a spell, occasionally ranks in the skill). If anything, this shows that the "specialty potions" for some reason break the standard design of D&D magic items.


At any rate, to return to the original poster's question, the easiest resolution to a question like this is for the DM to only allow creation of core magic items (or those listed in whatever added rulebooks you've authorized). The campaign is looking for trouble if the DM allows an open-door policy to creation of any arbitrary item of player design.

The DM should read "New Magic Items" on DMG p. 178, and then also the restrictions on "Researching Original Spells" on p. 42, to which the former refers. If the DM simply bans any non-core magic items, then your problem disappears.

 

[kreynolds]

Henrix, I'm not antagonizing you. I just disagree with you. I see flaws in your argument and I pointed them out.

An item that gives a bonus to use magic device smacks of too much metagame thinking.

You have a right to your opinion and I respect that. I won't insult you for having your own opinion. I just disagree with this one.

Do you mind reading what I post, instead of what's in your head?
I wasn't speaking of all items and all skills, I was speaking of Open Locks/Disable Device, a couple of rather specific skills that cannot be used untrained.

I know what you said. I just disagree with you. But it seems very lackluster to modify the bonuses of certain magic items simply based on the skill in question. Applying a universal rule that limits the bonus of one or two types of items to 1/3 of your skill ranks for a particular skill, while leaving all the rest unchanged, seems odd to me.

And in that case, as I read the Psionics Handbook, you can Use Magic Device with a psionic item, and vice versa.

I'll be honest. I have no idea what you're talking about here, as I have never heard of this. Nor is this in the Use Psionic Device skill description. I don't have my book with me so I can't look it up right now, but it's not in the SRD description.

As far as I can see we basically agree with one another in this matter.

No. We don't. I agreed with you on one point, and one point only. That's it. Just a difference of opinion. Like I said, I'm not antagonizing you. I just didn't feel that your argument had any weight.

 

[kreynolds]

Just from the above search of the core rules, it's clear that the majority of skill-enhancing items require something aside from simple caster level (usually a spell, occasionally ranks in the skill). If anything, this shows that the "specialty potions" for some reason break the standard design of D&D magic items.

Just because there is a "majority" doesn't mean that you must have a spell as a prereq. If that were true, how do you explain the Ring of Climbing and the Ring of Swimming? Using a spell is not a universal requirement to create a magic item that grants a skill bonus.

There are 3 different sets of prereqs that I'm aware of for items that grant skill bonuses.
1) A spell
2) Ranks in a skill
3) Spellcaster level

You can use any of these (whichever feels appropriate to the given item).

Also, note that I didn't limit my examples to potions. I also mentioned the Ring of Climbing.

At any rate, to return to the original poster's question, the easiest resolution to a question like this is for the DM to only allow creation of core magic items (or those listed in whatever added rulebooks you've authorized).

True. This is the easiest solution. However unimaginative or uncreative it is.

The campaign is looking for trouble if the DM allows an open-door policy to creation of any arbitrary item of player design.

If you have enough skill in creating magic items, this isn't a problem at all. So, the only campaign that's "looking for trouble", is a campaign run by an inexperienced DM. Just my opinion. Nobody said anything about an "open-door policy" either. What you call "open-door", I call fun. I don't have a problem with my players getting creative with magic item creation. I have the final say in what they can make anyways.

 

[Henrix]

I'll be honest. I have no idea what you're talking about here, as I have never heard of this. Nor is this in the Use Psionic Device skill description. I don't have my book with me so I can't look it up right now, but it's not in the SRD description.

I see it as the only tenable logical consequence of the magic-psionics transperancy rule (Psionics Handbook, p.36).
Although, I'll have to agree that it is far from explicit, as I see now that it only mentions the interaction between spells, spell-like abilities and psionic powers.

 

[Henrix]

At any rate, to return to the original poster's question, the easiest resolution to a question like this is for the DM to only allow creation of core magic items (or those listed in whatever added rulebooks you've authorized). The campaign is looking for trouble if the DM allows an open-door policy to creation of any arbitrary item of player design.

The DM should read "New Magic Items" on DMG p. 178, and then also the restrictions on "Researching Original Spells" on p. 42, to which the former refers. If the DM simply bans any non-core magic items, then your problem disappears.

This _cannot_ be stressed enough.


The DM should always think it over very carefully when the players want to invent new spells or items.

The default should be to only allow items from the core rules.

Anything else, think it over between games.
The DM should never have to feel forced to allow something, or make such a decision in a rush.

And remember how easily things can get out of balance.
A monsters AC is balanced taking into account the magical weapons characters of adequate levels have, but in scenario counts with the rouge having an item that gives him a +10 bonus to disable device.

So be wary of handing out (or letting the PCs make) items that give bonuses.
It can quickly result in a game where nothing is challenging any more, and that isn't really any fun for anyone.

 

[Hadraniel]

well under magic item creation making something that enhances skills the price is Bonus squared x 20 gp but it say nothing more. But some items like the ring and stuff have that little extra spell or skill they need. The chapter on item creation says nothing more on this subject.

 

[kreynolds]

Right...well...I'm bored. I think I'll duck out now. I'd like to say it's been informative?

 

[Gromm]

I agree that Use Magic item shouldn't be placed on an item (if you look very, very few skills with Int prereqs get a bonus). I also agree it smacks to much of metagame thinking. I just can't see it as an item, but its your game so do what you want.

As far as Open Locks, look at vest of escape. They have lockpicks that give +4 to Open Locks, as well as a +6 Escape Artist (the vest) for only 2000gp market.
So, in that at least, theres is precident.

The spell requirements knock and grease of course.

For Use Magic Items, I think legend lore or analyze dweomer would be appropriate if anything is (possibly commune, but it doesn't feel quite right).