item slot restrictions

[CapnZapp]

Consider this an alternative solution to the somewhat awkward daily item uses rules. (I've seen the idea proposed several times, but never "statted out" in full)

The point is to get rid of the number-keeping, while still not encouraging people to carry four Cloaks of Invisibility.

§ You do not need to keep track of daily item uses. Drop that. Instead, each character has thirteen item slots, or chakras; each of which can be used to activate a Daily item power once per day. See the full list of item slots with examples below.

§ Obviously, not all items can be used with all item slots. Some items, like wondrous items, require no slot to be activated. Only Daily item powers and Healing Surge item powers need item slots. (Healing Surge powers can be used several times as described by the rules; but as soon as you activate the power for the first time, it uses up that chakra for the day)

Head: Diadems, Helms, Goggles, Ioun Stones
Neck: Amulets, Cloaks, Scarabs
Arms: Bracers, Shields
Hands: Gauntlets, Gloves
Left ring: Rings
Right ring: Rings
Waist: Belts
Feet: Boots, Greaves
Armor: Clothing, Heavy Armor, Light Armor
Off-hand: (Shields), Implements, Weapons
Main-hand: Implements, Weapons
Ranged Weapon: Bows, Crossbows, Slings, Shuriken
Back-Up Item: Any, except rings
Yes, this list extends the official list from eight item slots to thirteen chakras.

Hopefully, the list is self-explanatory (otherwise, just ask what my intentions are!). The one slot I think needs a further explanation is the "back-up item" slot.

The Back-Up Item slot was first called Alternative Weapon. I changed the name when I realized that would favor fighters over spellcasters. It provides some relief from the rule's restrictions, which I feel is warranted. Use it to take advantage of a second Cloak or set of armor, a third Orb or Longsword.

Yes, this is more formal than a simple "one use out of each weapon or item slot" houserule. Use this if you want a more detailed rule, or when you have players trying to minmax your houserules...

Comments welcome,
Zapp

 

[Mengu]

I think there are a couple other reasons for the item daily power restrictions. One is to prevent novas. Some days you just know you are not going to be in very many encounters. Being able to go item nova in that one encounter of the day makes the encounter less interesting.

It also adds one more reason to reach milestones. You don't just get an action point when you reach a milestone, you also get an additional item daily.

Another reason is to feel the difference between tiers. Immediately having access to two item dailies at the beginning of the day, simply makes you feel more powerful.

Having said all that, if you have a good group that can ignore the five minute adventuring day, and play their characters as appropriate to the setting, and if your players are wise enough to conserve some power for future encounters, then I don't see anything particularly wrong with your propositions.

 

[CapnZapp]

Yes, yes... I'm using the "max 1-3 daily item uses per encounter" limitation in addition to this myself. Didn't include it in my above post, because I would like to focus on the item slot system itself.

So, if we leave the subject of novaing to another thread, do you still see nothing "particularly wrong" with this implementation of the of concept?

---

To clarify, I would like feedback on things like "you forgot one slot", "this slot could be removed", and the like... and what are your thoughts on me adding a ranged weapon slot*, as well as the freebie "back-up item" slot?

*) Myself, I'm inching towards making it bows, crossbows and slings only. One handed thrown weapons (daggers and axes) as well as one handed ranged weapons (shuriken) you can already benefit from three times (off-hand, main hand and back-up). There's no need to allow a fourth.

Either that, or I remove the slot altogether. But Is that fair to martial characters, who might feel they need to put their bow in the back-up slot in order for it not to occupy both main-hand and off-hand slots...?

 

[Mengu]

Holy symbols seem to be an omission, I'm not sure if this was intentional because they don't take up a slot, or if they are meant to be lumped together as backup item. They fit neither the main-hand nor the off-hand.

For ranged weapon, you might want to include implements. As a Warlock or Wizard, one may choose to keep some lower level wands around to be able to use them at opportune moments.

Backup item can be kind of a headache. Those wearing heavy armor would be foolish not to have a backup item that was a dwarven armor of some sort. And I wouldn't want to encourage lugging around a second suit of full plate.

I think I'd either ditch the backup item, or rename it to backup weapon or implement.

This would allow a ranger to have multiple bows, Wizards and Warlocks to have multiple implements, etc.

 

[CapnZapp]

Holy symbols seem to be an omission, I'm not sure if this was intentional because they don't take up a slot, or if they are meant to be lumped together as backup item. They fit neither the main-hand nor the off-hand.

For ranged weapon, you might want to include implements. As a Warlock or Wizard, one may choose to keep some lower level wands around to be able to use them at opportune moments.

Backup item can be kind of a headache. Those wearing heavy armor would be foolish not to have a backup item that was a dwarven armor of some sort. And I wouldn't want to encourage lugging around a second suit of full plate.

I think I'd either ditch the backup item, or rename it to backup weapon or implement.

This would allow a ranger to have multiple bows, Wizards and Warlocks to have multiple implements, etc.

Interesting, thanks.

Holy Symbols: As I remember (need to check the books), you can use a Holy Symbol either worn or hold. That is, these occupy either the Neck Slot or one of the hand slots (not the Hands slot).

And yes, this flexibility allows you to use the daily powers of no less than three Holy Symbols during one and the same fight (daily item uses allowing): one worn around the neck, two wielded in your Main and Off hands. (And yes, a fourth could be kept in the Back-Up Slot)

However, this means you're using neither sword nor shield, so I would hesitate to call it a problem that needs fixing. After all, this flexibility is built-into the type of implement (to allow the Paladin to get it out of the way of his fighting, while at the same time allowing the Cleric to use her neck slot for something else, opting to hold her Holy Symbol in her hand)

Either way, they aren't an intentional omission. The examples are just that, examples. (Otherwise the list would become scary long)

Ranged vs. Implements: Well, a Warlock or Wizard can already have a Wand, Rod or Orb in each hand.

But you're right. I have come to the conclusion there needs to be a slot, but that this slot should be reserved for two-handed tools only. Thanks for reminding me this should not only include Bows etc, but Staffs too.

The reason there needs to be a slot for two-handed tools is that otherwise a sword-and-board fighter would get two dailies out of his equipment, double that of an Archer. Not to mention how the well-rounded martial character would be denied a ranged power for distance combat. (Either that, or he would have to sacrifice his back-up slot. Which is unfair to him compared to spellcasters, who does not need different slots for different ranges of combat)

As I see it, the balance between one-handed and two-handed weapons breaks down if daily powers are restricted in such a way as to allow one-handed weapons double the daily uses of two-handed weapons. (The basic differences in range, damage and defense are well-balanced on the other hand. But in the core game, there isn't any restrictions making the use of longswords give you double the Dailies of the use of Greatswords. Yes, in one and the same fight, you do; but over the day?

Back-Up Items: First off, you do realize the core rules does nothing to discourage a fighter from lugging around several suits of armor, right? (As long as you have daily item uses left, you can use them all on armor Dailies, just by switching sets after each fight)

And some parties will have even bigger loads: some Wondrous Items could be quite bulky, and their dailies are not restricted at all.

So singling out armor as the one type of equipment you can't have a second copy of might be somewhat unfair.

Perhaps a compromise is to invent a "sub-set" of armor that contains the "active enchantment"? Let's take an example:

It is the "heartpiece" that defines any magical armor. This is the small piece that fits right over your heart. As long as the type and make of armor fits, you can switch heartpieces in order to change the magical enchantment of your armor without having to carry along different entire suits of armor.

If you wear Leather you can't switch to a heartpiece from armor made out of Cloth or Scale. However, you can switch to a heartpiece from masterwork leather armor, such as Starleather. This gains you the magical bonuses from the new suit, but not the masterwork properties (of Starleather, in this case).

Switching heartpieces can only be done during a Short Rest, the enchantment does not "take" instantly.

This allows the character focusing on defense to gain a second Daily out of his Plate mail just as the character focusing on offense can gain a second Daily out of his Longsword or Orb. Without us having to imagine the party lumbering under the load of several suits of armor per character.

As for your suggestion to limit the back-up slot to weapons and implements, well, with the Two-handed slot and the two hand slots, I feel weapons are already amply covered. I imagined this slot to be useful for a second Amulet, a second pair of Boots and the like.

Sure, many players will use the slot for an extra weapon. But do we really need to limit the slot in this way, making other uses go from rare to impossible?


Again thanks, your comments are valuable.

1) I will change the ranged slot to become a "Two-handed Slot" so it can cover Wizard Staffs as well (not to mention Greataxes and Halberds).
2) As for the back-up slot, I'm wavering between keeping it as-is (open to all items except rings) or removing it entirely.
3) I'll probably add Holy Symbols (in both possible slots) to the examples.

 

[Mengu]

I like the "heartpiece" concept.

Just a quick note on Holy Symbols, by RAW they do not take up the neck slot. They simply need to be held or worn. Your holy symbol could be around your neck, or wrist, or pinned to your cloak, or worn on your tabbard, or strapped on your shield, doesn't matter. Also if you are wearing or holding more than one holy symbol, none of your symbols function. So the holy symbol is essentially its own slot.

 

[CapnZapp]

Thanks for the heads up. So there is no reason whatsoever to hold the symbol, then?

(In other words, why hold it in your hand when that hand could be used for a Heavy Shield? Even if you have magic bracers, you can apparently gain +2 AC by using a mundane shield. It's not as if you need that hand for anything else - if you wielded a two-handed weapon, this scenario wouldn't have come up anyway)

I guess there needs to be some sort of bonus when you actually hold your symbol, boldly presenting it to your enemies. Perhaps a +1 bonus whenever you're using Divine Channelling or some such.

(In my case, I'll probably just houserule symbols into the neck or hand slot...)

But I digress. Thanks for making me realize I read the rule wrong!