Items in shop; everything or a limited selection?

[DarkelvenSFi]

Okey dokey. I figured the main conversation ran its course. I didn't mean to derail it if that's what I have done. I was just trying to spark some more thought by pointing out something related.

Sorry, I wasn't directing that comment any any particular person, but more as an effort to avoid hot tempers over differing opinions.

As for the shops providing items that power players shouldn't have.. I have in the past, not told of specific items that have shown up (in shops as well as monster hoards). So just because the system rolls something up, doesn't mean you have to take it/offer it.

but I'll note what I do in such situations: I say no.

Exactly what I do. And I offer justifications for my choices as you do. But still, some people just aren't content; which is why I felt the need to get some feedback for how others handle it (maybe thinking I was out of line).

But in all, I've worked out that most people follow a similar system of availability (if not method of delivery) of magic items. Makes my efforts more worthwhile.

Most players just don't have any idea of how much time and effort DMs put into creating a campaign. They just have to rock up on the day, maybe having to do some research into their next feat choice or spell options. They're constantly focused on themselves. DMs are always focused on the players (or characters in the game). This focus is why I will typically side with a DMs choice on what's allowed; s/he's not adversely biased to get something other than the enjoyment of the game for him/herself and the friends.

 

[DarkelvenSFi]

Also, unrelated to your current comment but related to your OP, here is a link to a blog post about magic shops. I'm not sure it takes the conversation in a new direction. It's just another viewpoint.

I took a look at that blog, and made a post to it. For the sake of completeness (and the effort it took to write it), I'll post it here too:

I'm think you're making one fatal flaw with your 'no magic shops' spiel. But several others as well. Comparing the fantasy world population to the real world population to determine how many PCs there would be hurts my brain... you're using guesswork to boil down to an abstract number in an effort to prove a point of view; and something that has little bearing on that view.

The fantasy world isn't only filled with humans.. nor just elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, giants, dragons, fey, demons, undead, and monstrous humaniods (to name a few that could conceivably make magical items). The occupations of these people aren't restricted by class either; nor is their ability to make magical items solely restricted to those that take on an adventuring class.

So you're now seeing that there could be a larger number of magical items available. Truth is, most monsters have a magical item on their person or in their possession. Nearly all classes (whether PC or NPC) will have some form of magical item. Even the basic NPCs you'll find about town may have some heirloom of some small magic. Nobles and royalty will have some form of magic item in their possession.

So there's really a large number of items about.

The question now becomes; how do they get them if not from a shop. Sure you could say they are made; but that's just an extension of the shop idea; you're just delaying the item arriving in hand (you're having it delivered in 30 days, so to speak).

The concept of a magic item shop isn't so bizarre. The average wage for people in the realm seems to be between a half gold to maybe 3 or so gold pieces each day. The average magic item can sell for between 12,000 and 45,000. Half of this is considered profit. By this reasoning, the shopkeeper needs only sell one item a year to be ahead by far. Factor in armed guards, overhead costs on the establishment, etc... it's not entirely unrealistic for each city/town to have a magic shop that caters only for the occasional passing adventurer.

 

[Eridanis]

Let's get the discussion back onto a polite level, please.

 

[green slime]

If I had a Magic Item Shop that sold a lot of magic items, there would have to be an agreement between the players and I that they would not abuse the privilege by stealing from it.

I'd actually like the players in such a case to make the effort. All too often the bland middle-aged player doesn't even bother.

I guess I've seen too many quasi-heroes without the driving need of greed.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

In the games that I run, I use a method similar to one already described, where the player makes a Gather Information roll to ferret out someone willing to make / part with the item in question. Success (I don't recall how I determine the DC, I've got it written down somewhere, it is not a terribly difficult check) means that they can get the item (assuming that they pay for it) for the next session. Failure by less than 5 means that they can do a specific adventure for the item (or act as if they've failed by more than 5). Failure by less than 10 means that they can find someone to make the item for them (this becomes more and more onerous the higher the characters are in level). Failure by 10 or more means that they cannot find anyone currently willing or able to make / part with the item. They may try again after the next session.

One other thing that I do, though, is that all item request / shopping issues must take place outside of normal gameplay. If a player asks me if he can get an item for his character during the session, my answer is pretty much always the same, "send me an email before the next session."

During my next campaign, I'm considering doing away with the big six by incorporating plusses into the characters abilities as they gain levels (similarly to the way that Vow of Poverty works) and then making magic items a bit harder to get. Then again, I may not, since I have had very little issue with the way that I've been doing things.