items on a bad guy

[evilbob]

If you're trying to distribute loot to the PCs and you'd like a particular item to be found on a "bad guy," do you have the bad guy able to use that item's abilities/boosts or just run him as normal and the item is just there when he's dead?

I know in the back of the DMG they have a wyrmpriest with an item that he uses, but I was thinking more about something like an amulet of protection +2. This item raises the bad guy's defenses pretty significantly - almost to the point that he'd be considered one level higher. In fact, add a +1 weapon and he -is- over one level higher. So do you raise the level of the bad guy when giving XP? Or just ignore the item stats and run as normal? (Maybe this is why half the XP values for the adventure in the back of the DMG are wrong? I thought it was just another example of bad copy-editing...)

I know how it would have worked in 3.5 but 4.0 mobs are set up entirely differently; they seemed designed to be very static. Any suggestions?

 

[Baumi]

NPC's and Monsters can use magic Items, but the enchantment bonuses might be lower for them. There is a Table in the DMG that show the maximum bonus per level of the NPC/Monster, there are also some guidelines how to deal with items on them.

 

[Mengu]

or just run him as normal and the item is just there when he's dead?

This is what I do. It's probably the easy way out. If the item has a property like resist poison 5 or some such that I planned the encounter around (such as a poison gas trap in the area), then I might use that property. Anything else, I pretty much ignore.

 

[fba827]

Baumi and Mengu already said what I was going to say, but I thought I would just add:
You may already remember this, but just in case, don't forget that magic items given by way of fallen dead enemies counts against treasure parcels (so you'd consider it one less magic amulet +2 that you could give out as loot elsewhere for the level)

 

[James McMurray]

Definitely have them use it. It may not matter if it doesn't overcome their magic threshold, but it doesn't make sense for someone who owns a powerful items to leave it in their pocket so their killers can benefit. And they don't know they have an item threshold.

 

[evilbob]

fba827: Yes, totally aware of the parcel thing, but thank you.

NPC's and Monsters can use magic Items, but the enchantment bonuses might be lower for them. There is a Table in the DMG that show the maximum bonus per level of the NPC/Monster, there are also some guidelines how to deal with items on them.

Ah, thank you, this is what I did not remember.

Altho looking at the text, it's still very confusing. I understand that NPCs should be restricted in some way, but the way it reads, you -subtract- the given value (+0 to +5) from the item:

If you give an NPC a magic item that grants a bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls or to defenses, subtract the magic threshold from that bonus before you apply it.

This makes no sense: that means a +2 item gives full benefit to a level 1 guy (since you SUBTRACT 0), but no benefit to a level 11 guy (since you subtract 2), and that you actually are TAKING AWAY 3 points from a level 26 guy (since you subtract 5).

I know the copy editing in these books was horrible, but is this just another example or am I just reading it wrong? They actually said it twice on the same page, which seems worse. What makes MUCH more sense is if the +number was a MAXIMUM, not something you subtract. That way, a level 1 guy gets no bonus from a +2 item (which seems fair since it would be a big bonus for him), but a level 11 and level 26 guy get the full effect (which also seems fair).

Has there been errata or can anyone else explain what they meant here?

 

[Milambus]

Flavor-wise they should defiantly use the item. Special powers should be usable also.

But I would ignore any flat enhancement bonuses to defenses and attack. Remember that monsters gain +1 to attack and defenses every level (not every other), seems to me that bonus covers any magic items the monsters should be using.

Its easy enough to say the orc swings are your player with a giant two-handed sword, without actually adding the +3 to his attack. I'd probably use the weapons damage die though.

 

[Insignia]

This makes no sense: that means a +2 item gives full benefit to a level 1 guy (since you SUBTRACT 0), but no benefit to a level 11 guy (since you subtract 2), and that you actually are TAKING AWAY 3 points from a level 26 guy (since you subtract 5).

The magic threshold is the magic bonus the NPC is expected to already have. The level 11 guy already has a +2 bonus to defenses and such (details are in the text, check it out); the level 26 guy has +5. When you add a magic item, you only add the part of the bonus that's over the threshold. Thus, if you give Mr Eleven a +3 amulet, he only adds +1 to his defenses, while a +1 item wouldn't affect him at all (since the threshold already covers that bonus). Similarly, Sir Twenty-Six would only benefit from enhancement bonuses of at least +6 - but still, only the part that's over his threshold.

To clarify, after double-checking the book: The magic threshold is the part of the level bonus that's assumed to be from magic items.

 

[James McMurray]

Has there been errata or can anyone else explain what they meant here?

You subtract the threshold from the bonus of the item, not from the NPC. Since bonuses are never negative, you can't hurt the NPC by giving him gear.

 

[evilbob]

You subtract the threshold from the bonus of the item, not from the NPC. Since bonuses are never negative, you can't hurt the NPC by giving him gear.

I guess it still doesn't seem to make sense to me; you're -subtracting- zero from items for low-level characters? So giving them a powerful item boosts them tremendously, but giving a powerful item to a high-level character does nothing? A +2 sword on a level 26 guy doesn't add anything, but the same weapon on a level 5 guy adds 2? That still doesn't seem to make sense: the level 5 guy is the one getting a huge boost, and the level 26 guy doesn't really even need the thing. So confusing...