D&D General It's not a video game.

[Stormonu]

I didn't run published modules in 2E because several of my players were already familiar with the older adventures, and at least one was notorious for consulting them to know what to do/where to go next. He was also the player that had memorized most of the entries of the Monster Manual (at least, the pertinent stats).

Haven't had that problem since then, and while I've run into folks too worried about "builds", I luckily haven't had someone who just treats it as a game "to beat".

 

[iserith]

I also realized after the fact that he'd made key decisions on which way to go, always choosing the easiest route.

Did the easier route make it so there was fewer XP or gold acquired? I'm imagining by "easier" there were fewer or weaker monsters to fight than had they gone another route.

 

[Reynard]

OD&D (1974) Vol I Men & Magic:

If you are a player purchasing the DUNGEONS & DRAGONS rules in order to improve your situation in an existing campaign, you will find that there is a great advantage in knowing what is herein. If your referee has made changes in the rules and/or tables, simply note them in pencil (for who knows when some flux of the cosmos will make things shift once again!), and keep the rules nearby as you play. A quick check of some rule or table may bring hidden treasure or save your game “life.”​

I don't think this is referencing the behavior I am talking about. I think it is talking about understanding the rules and knowing how to best implement them. i don't think it is talking about "strategy guiding" Descent into Avernus.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Well good players are suppose to try to gather intelligence about where they're adventuring, right?

 

[Reynard]

Well good players are suppose to try to gather intelligence about where they're adventuring, right?

That's an interesting take.

I wonder, what do players like this think when the GM deviates from the written material?

 

[jmartkdr2]

I think taking the attitude that reading ahead is cheating is likely to prevent real solutions - outside of ttrpgs, it's not only not cheating, it's often the correct way to play. You just need to teach players that this game works best when you go for a different kind of fun (that is, have fun along the way rather than focus on the achievement of winning.) Or find another game that does provide that kind of fun.

And this is true because 5e DnD isn't hard. It's just not a very challenging game, and really can't be. The only way to make it truly dangerous is to make it swingy, and that doesn't increase challenge because it doesn't care about skill. Slot machines aren't challenging.

 

[iserith]

I wonder, what do players like this think when the GM deviates from the written material?

"Dang, I should have listened to iserith when he said assumptions are dangerous and verifying them before acting upon them is smart play. That guy is so smart... and handsome!"

 

[overgeeked]

That's an interesting take.

I wonder, what do players like this think when the GM deviates from the written material?

They get accused of cheating. At least I was when I changed things up to pull the rug out from under a player like this.

 

[Nefermandias]

Some people absolutely play D&D like they would a digital RPG. It's a valid way to play and can be a ton of fun.

My longest 4E campaign was like that. I introduced a group of friends to D&D, and their references were games like Diablo. It became clear to me that even though they enjoyed social interactions and investigating, they were driven by challenging encounters, tactics and obtaining loot.

I started building my campaign with few encounters (sometimes as little as one between long rests) but have them really push the party to its limit. They really enjoyed standing around the game mat and deciding together what were the best moves and making plans "if you do enough damage and he's bloodied, I can do this next turn".

It's definitely different. I tend to reprimand my players if they do too much backseat decision taking for others or try to control what other players do. But in this playstyle its almost encouraged.

Obviously, optimizing comes with it. Optimizing a character always seemed silly to me. But optimizing a party totally make sense. They would discuss and say stuff like "I'm thinking of picking this power next level that will allow me to push back enemies", and then they'd try and create synergy with their build choices.

I've ran something similar in 5E once, but it didn't last as long because of unrelated reasons.

Optimizing and playing tactically isn't really what OP is talking about. He's baffled (and rightly so!) with people asking for advice on how to "beat" specific published modules. Usually over Reddit.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

I think taking the attitude that reading ahead is cheating is likely to prevent real solutions - outside of ttrpgs, it's not only not cheating, it's often the correct way to play. You just need to teach players that this game works best when you go for a different kind of fun (that is, have fun along the way rather than focus on the achievement of winning.) Or find another game that does provide that kind of fun.

I'm with you on this.

And this is true because 5e DnD isn't hard. It's just not a very challenging game, and really can't be. The only way to make it truly dangerous is to make it swingy, and that doesn't increase challenge because it doesn't care about skill. Slot machines aren't challenging.

But I am scratching my head at this. It has not been my experience. Are you saying a 5e DM lacks the ability to create a challenging encounter? I'm not understanding where you are coming from on this. Can you say more?