log in or register to remove this ad

 

D&D 5E Jeweler's Skill? Got a player increasing value of treasure..what?

Snoring Rock

Explorer
I have a player with the proficiency in jewelers tools. He wants to alter each piece of jewelry the party has found and make it more valuable by adding gems or changing the original work. I cannot seem to find this rule anywhere. There is a blurb under ability checks using artisan tools but that is crafting and is about creating things and gives a value of 5gp per day of work. Is there anything else in the core rules I missed?
 

log in or register to remove this ad

It's not a rule. If you want to go down this route, be warned that - like letting players use Persuasion to haggle with shopkeepers - it'll add a lot of dice rolling to what is normally ignored (the act of selling loot). I tend not to allow it for the simple purpose of keeping things simple, but you may want to give the player a bone to reflect the skill and their idea. I suggest saying 'no' to this, but also telling him privately that you'll add a cool magical artefact that only his character and their jeweling ability will be able to activate - a necklace with all the stones missing, scattered across the land. That's fun and something to look forward to, rather than an irritating way to try and increase loot found 'for free'.
 

Yes, per the rules, it's 5 gp per day of work crafting. If you find a 2500-gp crown and work on it for a week, you can increase its value to 2535 gp.

The rules were intended to give a quick-and-simple answer to the question to get it out of the way and not make it attractively profitable, because crafting is not normally the focus of the game. But if your player wants this to be his character's schtick, I recommend homebrewing some rules to allow him to increase value by a percentage rather than an absolute value, which is both more rewarding and more realistic in this context.
 

Gardens & Goblins

First Post
Don't think you've missed anything - just make it up.

Firstly, ask yourself if you're aok with it? Are you ok with the character boosting the party's cash reserves.

If not, then you could outright veto the action. They can consolidate the value of several items and gems into a single item, but not gain an overall increase in funds.

However, you might let them tinker. There is a UA article about downtime activities and crafting is in there. https://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/UA_Downtime.pdf

For the value, I'd simply add the new gems to the total gold piece cost. Tot up the materials involved and work out the time to craft from there. This would allow them to consolidate their assets into a single item.

Then, to make more money from their crafted item, I'd use the same article, using the 'Selling Magical Item' rules. This does present the chance of failure but also the chance of making a significant return on their time/resources spent.

Of course, these efforts will take time and require a workshop. Trying to knock something up while on the road should be ..tricky.

From my limited expose, through an old friend that was a jeweler, I believe can't simply add gems to existing jewelry as each piece is typically designed and crafted around their selected gems. As a result, I reckon a character would most likely need to smelt down any precious metals and recast the piece, designing and setting the stones as required. A fine way of perhaps consolidating a party's wealth into fewer items - or perhaps a way of adorning/adding some bling to a favourite item/magical item. Maybe we have some actual jewelers on the forums that can correct/refine as required.
 

schnee

First Post
This sounds like someone who wants to exploit every possible edge.

Simple: the time to get good enough at that skill to increase their money by a significant margin will eat into their adventuring. Their work will look amateurish and crude next to a 100% dedicated pro, and they'll do far more damage to reduce the value on the ones they ruin than they will to increase the value on the ones they actually improve.

They're adventurers, not craftspeople. The skills in the book are for story or character depth, not mechanical loopholes to give more than the rules allow.
 

I would let him try, but remindd him about critical failures.
Make it difficulty 10, 15 or 20 and tell him missing by 5 or more will ruin the piece of art.
Try to set the DC so that it is profitable on cheap jewelery bit less so on expensive.
What I would to honor the roleplaying attempt is adding partially destroyed expensive items once in a while so he can repair them to make it more valuable.
 

Prakriti

Hi, I'm a Mindflayer, but don't let that worry you
I try to discourage all forms of scrounging in my games.

- Persuasion checks for shopkeepers
- Scavenging weapons and armor from a battlefield
- Digging through the pockets of dead goblins

If my players get into these habits, I usually just offer to add extra gold to the treasure hoards as an alternative, thus saving everyone time.

"Goblins don't carry anything interesting. Their equipment is damaged and their pockets are empty. All their valuables are kept in a communal hoard in the goblin hideout. I promise you won't miss anything important by ignoring their bodies," etc.
 

Rils

Explorer
I disagree with the view that this is powergaming of some sort. The player took that craft to represent the character's previous skills and life before becoming an adventurer. It's completely realistic to expect that having proficiency with jewelry allows him to increase the value of jewelry with some work. Arguing the opposite is like saying someone proficient in Survival doesn't know how to track, or someone proficient in Stealth doesn't know how to be sneaky, "because that's OP". The player had limited proficiency slots when building the character, he put them into this tool set, and should be allowed to use them for an advantage of some sort.

That said, like using those other skills, it shouldn't be an automatic win. First, the player needs downtime to work on it - it can't be something done on the trail. To improve the value of something, it needs time and the appropriate workshop and tools to do so. The 5gp a day assumes that the character has access to the right resources and spends 8 hours a day working on it - like a job. So if they are in town for a week, and the guy wants to spend 5 days of that working on a necklace to make an extra 25gp, *I* don't see a problem with that. The other PCs should also be doing something to make money or gain other advantages at the same time - working jobs, following leads, etc. Earning 5gp a day isn't going to break the bank. And it's 5 days he's not doing something else productive, so that's the trade off. After all, time is money...

If you want to make life interesting, add an element of risk. For each day he works on it, roll a d20 - on a 1, he breaks the thing beyond repair, and not only loses any value he put into it, but cuts it's original value in 1/2; it's now only good for scrap. To me, that's an interesting choice - I can take the chance to make some money at the cost of time, but I run the risk of butching it and losing it all. Go big or go home, as they say. :)

But whatever you do, DON'T say "no" to this. Find a way to make it work - players need to be given the opportunity to use the character choices they made, otherwise the whole thing is pointless.
 
Last edited:

I'd go with what [MENTION=6683613]TheCosmicKid[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5250]Rill[/MENTION]s suggest.

Yes you can do this, on average the character will increase the value by 5gp per day. You can put a table together for this and also create some sort of "quality" rating on items that indicate how much they can be improved. For instance, a necklace that is of 'Masterwork' quality is really hard to improve (DC25) and you can only increase the value by 10%. Whereas something that is of 'Crude'quality can be increased by 500% and is easy to improve (DC 10).

Make sure you include the chance of failure, and of exceptional success, but again, it should average out to 5gp per day.

It can be interesting, but remember, 5E is a simulation of heroic adventure, not a career or society simulator.
 

Valetudo

Explorer
Man, so many downers on this thread. Is your player causing real problems in the game because of this? If so then just say no. But, if you can create hooks or some filler that doesnt get in the way, go for it. #Hedeaditsminenow
 

Stalker0

Legend
I would say failure can delay the work but should not ruin the item.

The math is horrifically harsh if you do. If the player has just a 5% chance of failure, and you make him roll once a day on a 5 day piece of work...that is a 22.6% chance he will ruin it. No one would ever craft anything with those failure chances.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Character fleshed out with non-combat abilities - fantastic, wish there was more of that. Wants to actually use them to represent their character's background. Woo! Just like I'd like a character with perform make money if they wanted to play int he inn or put on a show, this is the exact same thing. and really, in 5e, when is a bit of extra gold ever OP?

Of course you can do that, just like using other skills and tools to gamble, make money, or pay your lifestyle.
 

I'm a fan of the countdown clock method for stuff like this.

All you do is draw a clock with 4/6 slices, and have him roll his jeweler tools to fill in the slices, and once they're filled in, the job is done. And just say it costs 1/3/5 days of downtime to make a roll on the clock.

A roll of 1-10 doesn't fill in anything. 10-15 1 slice gets filled. 15-20 2 slices get filled, ect ect.

Maybe you can have a 6 sided clock equal to 10% increase in value.

So say he says "I want to take 5 100gp gems and turn them into a crown" Then you can ask him "How much do you want to increase the value by?" and he says "50%" So then you just make 5 clocks that he has to fill in before the work is done and he can sell it. When its done its worth 750gp instead of just 500gp.

If he rolls really well he can finish 1 clock every 2 days, so 10 days.

I think the average is 2 slices per roll so you can use that as a measuring stick.

Also you can adjust the value of a clock maybe 10% is too low for you, then make it 25%. Maybe its too high, so make a clock 5%, or even 1%

If someone wants to "Help him" give him a +5 to the roll, so hes essentially getting 1 slice for the help. Or just give his roll Advantage.

Also, When he makes a roll on the clock, have him tell you what the progress looks like, "Today I set one of the gems on the crown." Even if he fails a roll and doesn't make any progress, have him tell you why that is "I sneezed and dropped it."
 

Harzel

Adventurer
I guess it depends how much extra work you are up for, since to make it sufficiently interesting and rewarding, I think you need to invent something beyond, "You work for 5 days. Congratulations, here is your 25 g.p." You have several variables to work with: the player's stated goal, dice rolls, the amount of time taken, the resultant quality/value. There are some good suggestions in the thread already. The main points that I would make:
  • I would definitely include some dependency on dice to keep it from feeling perfunctory/automatic.
  • I would keep disastrous failures rare; delays or perhaps additional material costs are a better common failure mode.
  • I would keep the net effect approximately in line with the 5 g.p. / day standard, but allow some variability up or down depending on the dice. Also, it could go up a bit as the game progresses and he is acquiring better loot. However, working on fancier items might require upgrading his jeweler's kit.
  • Be sure to think about how this will play out in terms of how much table time it will take. See http://theangrygm.com/crafting-herbcraft-part-1/ for a dissertation on some general principles of crafting system design.
  • For the dice roll itself, I would probably make it d20 + DEX mod + proficiency bonus so that he has some avenues to get better over time. If it suits your fancy to make the DCs for working on various pieces widely different, you could additionally establish a skill bonus separate from the usual stats that he could work up slowly over time (preferably at the cost of some resources, but exactly how is up to you).
 

schnee

First Post
Call me a downer, but this is a slippery slope.

Druid does the math for how much Trade Goods a certain farm generates per year.

1 pound of wheat = 1 copper piece
1 bushel of wheat = 60 lbs of wheat
1 acre of wheat yields = ~50 bushels
1 mile diameter circle = 500 acres
500 acres x 50 bushels x 60 pounds = 1,400,000 pounds of wheat
1,400,000 pounds of wheat = 1,400,000 CP = 14,000 GP

So, one Plant Growth cast as 8-hour ritual generates almost 14,000 gold pieces.
Even assuming a 50% cut, that means the Druid can earn 7,000 GP per casting per year.

Do a few dozen of these, and you can command the economy. Not bad for an 8-hour workday. I've certainly done worse.

Why not? It's legit by the rules. :heh:
 
Last edited:

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
This sounds like someone who wants to exploit every possible edge.

Simple: the time to get good enough at that skill to increase their money by a significant margin will eat into their adventuring. Their work will look amateurish and crude next to a 100% dedicated pro, and they'll do far more damage to reduce the value on the ones they ruin than they will to increase the value on the ones they actually improve.

They're adventurers, not craftspeople. The skills in the book are for story or character depth, not mechanical loopholes to give more than the rules allow.

I find it the opposite - it's easy enough to pick a background that will give two adventuring skills. Yet no one calls that "wanting to exploit every possible edge". Here's someone who was a jeweler (from their background), something that doesn't help with adventuring so they are less powerful. Gold - not a powerful part of character advancement in 5e like it was in earlier editions - is cheap and a few extra percentage points won't make a big difference. Especially compared to if they picked a background that gave perception, or stealth, or what-have you active adventuring skill.
 

Gilladian

Adventurer
I am a hobby jewelry maker. Redesigning and improving a finished piece is pretty hard. Disassembling and using parts is much more likely. He would need a workshop to do that. He'd be reforging metal and doing lots of torch work, and hammering, filing, soldering, etc... However, if he wants to, say, set unfinished gems (not uncut raw, but unset cabochons or faceted gemstones) in wirework, he could do that with only hand tools (a set or two of pliers, cutters, a few pounds of spooled wire, a small hammer and bench block. Say abt 10 lbs of supplies in a kit. He could add 25-50% value to an average stone, with only very minor chance (1 in 1,000) of damage that he could not fix routinely ( the stone breaks, essentially). He could work up a single piece in 4-6 hours of continuous or intermittent labor.
 

Wiseblood

Adventurer
I am a hobby jewelry maker. Redesigning and improving a finished piece is pretty hard. Disassembling and using parts is much more likely. He would need a workshop to do that. He'd be reforging metal and doing lots of torch work, and hammering, filing, soldering, etc... However, if he wants to, say, set unfinished gems (not uncut raw, but unset cabochons or faceted gemstones) in wirework, he could do that with only hand tools (a set or two of pliers, cutters, a few pounds of spooled wire, a small hammer and bench block. Say abt 10 lbs of supplies in a kit. He could add 25-50% value to an average stone, with only very minor chance (1 in 1,000) of damage that he could not fix routinely ( the stone breaks, essentially). He could work up a single piece in 4-6 hours of continuous or intermittent labor.

This is the best info. Also the money made is for expert labor. Not inherent increase in value. In fact you have more potential buyers when the price is not outrageous.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Call me a downer, but this is a slippery slope.

Druid does the math for how much Trade Goods a certain farm generates per year.

1 pound of wheat = 1 copper piece
1 bushel of wheat = 60 lbs of wheat
1 acre of wheat yields = ~50 bushels
1 mile diameter circle = 500 acres
500 acres x 50 bushels x 60 pounds = 1,400,000 pounds of wheat
1,400,000 pounds of wheat = 1,400,000 CP = 14,000 GP

So, one Plant Growth cast as 8-hour ritual generates almost 14,000 gold pieces.
Even assuming a 50% cut, that means the Druid can earn 7,000 GP per casting per year.

Do a few dozen of these, and you can command the economy. Not bad for an 8-hour workday. I've certainly done worse.

Why not? It's legit by the rules. :heh:

You're assuming there is no cost to planting or harvesting and that there is sufficient farmland to cast multiple per day and enough farmworkers to bring it in. Enough teamsters to bring it to where it can be sold. And enough empty mouths to feed nearby that an extra 1.4mil lbs of wheat PER CASTING has a demand.

I think it's pretty clear that it's not 50% profit to plant and harvest a field, so while there is some profit per harvest, an extra harvest still only has some of that as profit. If any - if the glut pushes prices down it may not even cover the manpower needed. This has happened in the US even without Druids. :)

But yes, a high level druid passing through who thinks that spreading agriculture and civilization is the best way to protect nature can make a huge difference in the profitability of a farming community by providing additional harvests per growing season. If you assume a profitability of 10% after expenses for the normal harvest, say a second harvest could bring in 4-8% profit with the reduced prices and anything beyond that isn't even paying costs. So say 6% of 14,000GP for the second harvest, and the druid gets half of that, is about 420GP per casting. And those castings need to be far enough apart that there's a local demand for the food, and probably are only once a year per location.

Seems reasonable. A 5th level Druid to cast plant growth can probably make more than 420GP a day adventuring.
 

Call me a downer, but this is a slippery slope.

Druid does the math for how much Trade Goods a certain farm generates per year.

1 pound of wheat = 1 copper piece
1 bushel of wheat = 60 lbs of wheat
1 acre of wheat yields = ~50 bushels
1 mile diameter circle = 500 acres
500 acres x 50 bushels x 60 pounds = 1,400,000 pounds of wheat
1,400,000 pounds of wheat = 1,400,000 CP = 14,000 GP

So, one Plant Growth cast as 8-hour ritual generates almost 14,000 gold pieces.
Even assuming a 50% cut, that means the Druid can earn 7,000 GP per casting per year.

Do a few dozen of these, and you can command the economy. Not bad for an 8-hour workday. I've certainly done worse.

Why not? It's legit by the rules. :heh:

I think that's a great idea. If your players want to explore how magic affects the economy and vice versa, why not let them?
 

Level Up!

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top