Jim Ward still doesnt get it.

[JacktheRabbit]

Jim Ward of Fast Forward Entertainment has put out his latest 900 word. These are generally essays by him on various items.

This latest one is on being Monty Haul and how wonderful a campaign is when Monty Haul is your DM's style of play. He then goes even further by suggesting that WOTC supports Monty Haul Style by putting out the Epic Level Handbook.

I guess this would all be expected. Fast Forward Entertainment under him has put out product after product that are nothing but poorly designed Monty Haul fests. Monster numbers are outrageous and every creature tougher than a goblin has a dragons horde under his pillow. Because of this Fast Forward probably has the lowest average review rationg of any company that has put out more than 5 products.

So what does everyone think? Is Jim right? Is DnD 3E aimed towards Monty Haul with ELH as proof of this? Or is the rest of the 3E gaming world right in their more realistic and balanced format?

Personally I have to side with the majority here. Not only if FFE's games monty haul in their treasure, but the material itself is often so poorly designed that you get the impression that hours not weeks were put into the creation of those products.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Sorry

Here is a link so you can get to the article in question.

http://www.fastforwardgames.com/900index.htm#

 

[Buttercup]

Well, if he wants to DM that kind of game, and he can find players who also enjoy that style, rock on.

His notion that the ELH=Monty Haul isn't quite on the mark, IMO. If your players find 500k worth of treasure on a monster corpse when they're level 23, that's a bit different than level 2 characters findint 500k worth on a goblin, which is the kind of out-of-balance rewards he seems to be advocating.

Further, the amount of treasure is far from being the only concern people have raised about his products. I notice he's chosen to ignore that.

Still, he keeps producing products, so someone must be buying them.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Here isa great quote from his 900 word:

Although I understand the thinking behind the present highly conservative d20 group, I like the Monty Haul style of play much better. If you want to look down your nose at my high level treasures and tougher encounters, fine; but you are missing out on a level of play allowing characters to have even more fun.

So now he is even saying his playing style is superior to everyone elses. I guess though you would have to get Monty Haul treasure to survive any of Jim Ward's products.

I briefly owned Treaure Quests (a very understand game store owner let me exchange it) and I remember one particular "mini adventure" inside well. It was a small sections of natural caverns no more than a dozen of them spread out around a large cavern with a underground river running through. Within those caverns gathered in groups of between 6 and 20 were a total of over 100 Yuan-ti abominations. Yep over 100 of them. All of the locations were close enough together to logically assume that they would be attracted by the sound of combat when the first group was fought. Now Treasure Quests is a hardcover that if I remember right should max out your party at 14th level or so.

Here is the million dollar question.

How much monty haul treasure would a 14th level party need to defeat over 100 Yuan-ti?

 

[drnuncheon]

Within those caverns gathered in groups of between 6 and 20 were a total of over 100 Yuan-ti abominations. Yep over 100 of them. All of the locations were close enough together to logically assume that they would be attracted by the sound of combat when the first group was fought.

Silly Doc. Monsters never leave the room that their description is in unless it specifically says so in the module.

J

 

[JacktheRabbit]

D'oh!!!

I forgot that this is still 1979 and we are all playing 1E.

Silly Doc. Monsters never leave the room that their description is in unless it specifically says so in the module.

J

 

[Piratecat]

What do I think? I think that you should be less insulting and rude. I also think that you should stop using hyperbole to make a point. Phrases like "every creature tougher than a goblin has a dragons horde under his pillow" have got to be inaccurate, and don't do your argument a bit of good. Perhaps you could offer supporting examples?

It's obviously fine if you don't like FFE's stuff, but I think you'd be much better off phrasing it as your own opinion, not as unalloyed fact. And if you make claims like "poorly designed Monty Haul fests" and the aforementioned "dragon's hoard" comment, you're better off if you back them up with examples.

How much treasure did the yuan ti village have? Reminds me of G1-3, or Keep on the Borderlands.

 

[EricNoah]

Also just for the sake of clarity:

FFG = Fantasy Flight Games -- not the company being discussed here.

FFE = Fast Forward Entertainment -- Jim Ward's company.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

I corrected my posts to make it less confusing but that leaves me with a question. What is the actual company name?

Their website is www.fastforwardgames.com but on the website it says Fast Forward Entertainment.

Also just for the sake of clarity:

FFG = Fantasy Flight Games -- not the company being discussed here.

FFE = Fast Forward Entertainment -- Jim Ward's company.

 

[Turjan]

I'd always say 'each to his own'. I had already read Jim Ward's column before this thread here was posted. The only thing which somehow irritated me was the following half of a sentence:

"Although I understand the thinking behind the present highly conservative d20 group,..."

I really don't get the connection between the d20 movement and conservativism. Something like "moral majority", or what are we talking about here?