D&D 1E Judges Guild Character Classes for OD&D/AD&D?

[ilgatto]

Esteemed friends,

Because I'm required to see what's what in the Elphand Lands, I've been digging through some early Judges Guild publications and I've noticed several abbreviations for what I assume to be AD&D 1E character classes in many of them.
I've found a list of all of them on page 10 of the Castle Book (1978) (See below),
In this list, the abbreviations FTR, CL, MU, TH, IL, BA, DR, MNK, PAL RGR, and AS would seem to cover the classes found in the Players Handbook.

But then there are "SG", "AL", and "SA", for which I can find no explanation.

Of note would be that, further down on the same page, in the "RANDOM FOLLOWER CHART" "SA" is grouped with "FTR", while later on, on what I assume to be page 12 (See below), "AL" is sometimes mentioned together with "BA".

Does anyone happen to know what character classes "SG", "AL", and "SA" stand for?

Regards,

ilgatto

 

[SteveC]

I believe "AL" = alchemist and "SA" = sage. "SG", not sure.

 

[Jack Daniel]

Alchemist, samurai, sage.

 

[ilgatto]

Alchemist, samurai, sage.

I believe "AL" = alchemist and "SA" = sage. "SG", not sure.

Thanks.

Do you think they are the DMG Sage and the Alchemist and Samurai from The Dragon #2 and #3?

If so, do you happen to know why JG opted to include the Alchemist and Samurai in their publications and not, say, the Berserker, the Scribe, and the Healer?


By the way:
"Scribes are rather rare and expensive Specialists who have the ability to read and copy magical writing from Scrolls and Books of Spells into the Spell Books of Magic-Users and Clerics. Only Scribes may do this, for there exists a curse upon all magical writing which causes any but Scribes, who know the counter-spell, to go permanently and incurably insane (Remove Curse not-withstanding)."
David Mumper, in: The Dragon, Vol. 1, No. 3 (TSR, 1976)

Who knew, 'ey?

 

[SteveC]

Do you think they are the DMG Sage and the Alchemist and Samurai from The Dragon #2 and #3?

If so, do you happen to know why JG opted to include the Alchemist and Samurai in their publications and not, say, the Berserker, the Scribe, and the Healer?

I think all of the classes were from homebrew elements from the authors' campaigns. They might have been, or might not. Judges Guild had a ton of material that they took from their games and published. That time was really the Wild West of gaming where people just took things seemingly at random from all sorts of material. It wasn't until it became more profitable that the lawyers got involved and we lost this. I sort of feel like it was a "between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis" sort of thing, almost mythical today.

 

[robertsconley]

Back in the day, Judges Guild had a lot of home brew rules found in the City-State of the Invincible Overlord and other supplements. Later when they lost their D&D license they came up with a set of abbreviations call the Universal System.
The Acaeum (a D&D collector site) has a nice summary here.

The Judges Guild Universal Syste

Understand that this was never an RPG.

Now this came out well after the Castle and Village books. But I am 90% sure that SA is Samurai and SG is Sage. If I find the exact early reference I will share it.

Note if you look at where SA is used.

It is equivalent to a Fighter, hence SA = Samurai

Here is the Universal System list of classes from Witches Court Marshes

 

[GuyBoy]

Nothing to add in terms of answers but thanks for the reminder about the magical stuff from JG back in the day. I still have nightmares about our crushing defeat by the Witches of Marmon!

 

[TerraDave]

Back in the day, Judges Guild had a lot of home brew rules found in the City-State of the Invincible Overlord and other supplements. Later when they lost their D&D license they came up with a set of abbreviations call the Universal System.
The Acaeum (a D&D collector site) has a nice summary here.

The Judges Guild Universal Syste

Understand that this was never an RPG.

Now this came out well after the Castle and Village books. But I am 90% sure that SA is Samurai and SG is Sage. If I find the exact early reference I will share it.

Note if you look at where SA is used.
View attachment 289490
It is equivalent to a Fighter, hence SA = Samurai

Here is the Universal System list of classes from Witches Court Marshes
View attachment 289489

So much here…to start I really want to see the write-ups for the buffoon, demon (class!), valkyrie, and witch.

 

[ilgatto]

Back in the day, Judges Guild had a lot of home brew rules found in the City-State of the Invincible Overlord and other supplements. Later when they lost their D&D license they came up with a set of abbreviations call the Universal System.
The Acaeum (a D&D collector site) has a nice summary here.

The Judges Guild Universal Syste

Understand that this was never an RPG.

Now this came out well after the Castle and Village books. But I am 90% sure that SA is Samurai and SG is Sage. If I find the exact early reference I will share it.

Note if you look at where SA is used.
View attachment 289490
It is equivalent to a Fighter, hence SA = Samurai

Here is the Universal System list of classes from Witches Court Marshes
View attachment 289489

Brilliant! Now that I see that list I know I knew it existed - oh well. so much to remember, so much to forget.
I guess that list does settle it: AL for Alchemist, SA for Samurai, and SG for sage.
So I'll be using the DMG1 sage for the SGs I need to deal with, and the early The Dragon Samurai and Alchemist for the SAs and ALs, respectively. Seems the way to go.

Now here's to hoping that the "GH" in the "RANDOM FOLLOWER CHART" for "BAs" in the Castle Book is a typo!

Wouldn't be the only one, of course...

 

[ilgatto]

So much here…to start I really want to see the write-ups for the buffoon, demon (class!), valkyrie, and witch.

I suppose the WITCH could well be the OD&D Witch class in The Dragon 5.

Hold on... it's more likely the one in Witches Court Marshes (JG, 1982)

"The Idiot" or perhaps the Jester from The Dragon 3 for the BUFFOON?

I thought the VALKYRIE could be in Shield Maidens of Sea Rune, but no.

As to the DEMON - it's not in Demons of Dundurn.