Jump + Levitate

[Jon Potter]

The set-up: Lava floe with several stepping stones leading to the McGuffin across the way.

My players want to use Levitation to aid in making the necessary jumps. Stylistically, I like the idea, but rules-wise I'm having a hard time justifying it to myself.

Both Jumping and moving vertically via Levitation are move actions and a character CAN make two move actions in a round. The problem is in the timing of the two actions; they should occur in sequence, right? What my players are preposing is interrupting their jump mid-way to throw in some Levitation for vertical lift.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more rule-breaking it seems. And that irritates the Lawful Neutral in me.

Opinions?

 

[kerbarian]

The set-up: Lava floe with several stepping stones leading to the McGuffin across the way.

My players want to use Levitation to aid in making the necessary jumps. Stylistically, I like the idea, but rules-wise I'm having a hard time justifying it to myself.

Both Jumping and moving vertically via Levitation are move actions and a character CAN make two move actions in a round. The problem is in the timing of the two actions; they should occur in sequence, right? What my players are preposing is interrupting their jump mid-way to throw in some Levitation for vertical lift.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more rule-breaking it seems. And that irritates the Lawful Neutral in me.

Opinions?

It's not explicitly stated, but I'd say that the default behavior of a levitating character is to float in place. i.e. they're not affected by gravity. So if someone under the effects of levitate were to make a long jump, they'd cover the normal distance but end their jump up in the air rather than on the ground. Depending on how realistic the physics are in your game, they could either keep drifting in the direction of their jump for a long time (until they're slowed by air resistance), or they could stop at the end of the jump distance.

In the former case, the party could probably cross the entire lava flow in one jump (drifting across for several rounds, perhaps) and then lower to the ground on the far side.

If you rule that they stop, though, there are still some good options. The simplest would be to throw a grappling hook to the far side of the flow, or to the farthest stepping stone they can reach (from up in the air, so the rope doesn't fall into the lava). Then they can haul themselves across while levitating.

If they don't have grappling hooks, then they could just try jumping normally and hope at least one party member makes it far enough. Lower that one guy onto the stepping stone, and he can pull all the others in via rope. Repeat for each stepping stone. It might also be good to jump with a rope secured at their starting point, so that they can haul themselves safely back if no one jumps far enough.

Or if they have (or can assemble from local materials) some long poles, they could pole themselves along through the air, pushing off of the shore and then each stepping stone.

 

[The_Warlock]

Well, here's the thing, levitation gives in essence height control over the ground, allowing the individual to raise or lower themselves...

Now, if you look at the rules for completing jumps over the course of two rounds (ie, start the run and jump and finish it in the next round, since the limit on distance per move remains, even though you could roll a jump that exceeds your character's technical movement allowance [I believe this is actually in D20 modern, and not clearly covered in 3.5 D&D]), you could make them start the jump, but they can only increase their clearance if they can get a jump roll that would allow them to cover a distance greater than their base move.

Or, on a more on the fly nature say...

1) The nature of the levitation gives you a seeming bouyancy, and grant a +4 to their jump checks to simulate the benefit; OR

2) State that as long as they are willing to levitate slightly off the ground first (with feet flat to ground so that they aren't touching, but they could still contact it with the balls of their feet), they will have a -4 to their jump check (since they aren't getting enough purchase to push off of the ground), but they will never fall lower than the last height they were levitating at barring external outside force (a large flat boulder falls on them and pushes them down into the lava...no, that would never happen). This will still only put them inches over the lava on their first jump (hello burning feet), but with a rope tied loosely to the jumper, it's a hell of a lot easier to save and retrieve a failed jumper than if they were in the lava proper.

But that's just some quick ideas...

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I read levitate as a static 'elevator' type effect. Once in the air, the character must have purchase against something to get moving.. which would mean a levitate + jump could end up with the character floating mid-way over the lava with nothing to push against

I would probably go with a +5 to the Jump check for using levitate to get some range.. its a little extra boost but not much. {+5 vice +4 since the check result = distance moved. A simple one square further makes more sense to me and ensures that the spell isn't 'wasted' when the jump check ends up being right on the mark}
{eg, Jump check result of 20 + 4 still = 20' movement...}

 

[frankthedm]

I read levitate as a static 'elevator' type effect. Once in the air, the character must have purchase against something to get moving.. which would mean a levitate + jump could end up with the character floating mid-way over the lava with nothing to push against

The character would not be able to jump once the caster raises him with levitate. Levitate does not turn off gravity for a character, it raises or lowers them at the casters whims. If the caster readies the levitation for when the character jumps, the Dm is in his rights to say the levitate happens before the jump occurs, preventing the jump. Otherwise just treat the "ground" as being whater the caster has set the levitatee's levitation hieght to be.

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Levitate
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: You or one willing creature or one object (total weight up to 100 lb./level)
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Levitate allows you to move yourself, another creature, or an object up and down as you wish. A creature must be willing to be levitated, and an object must be unattended or possessed by a willing creature. You can mentally direct the recipient to move up or down as much as 20 feet each round; doing so is a move action. You cannot move the recipient horizontally, but the recipient could clamber along the face of a cliff, for example, or push against a ceiling to move laterally (generally at half its base land speed).

A levitating creature that attacks with a melee or ranged weapon finds itself increasingly unstable; the first attack has a -1 penalty on attack rolls, the second -2, and so on, to a maximum penalty of -5. A full round spent stabilizing allows the creature to begin again at -1.

Focus
Either a small leather loop or a piece of golden wire bent into a cup shape with a long shank on one end.

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If the Dm Desires to run levitate as turning gravity off, D20 modern does have some pertinent info in the modern SRD. Though honestly one could not really get an forward momentum if that is the case.

LOW-GRAVITY ENVIRONMENTS
Skill Check Bonuses: Creatures in a low-gravity environment gain a +10 bonus on Strength-based skill checks (including Climb, Jump, and Swim checks).

ZERO-GRAVITY ENVIRONMENTS
Speed: While in a zero-gravity environment, a creature gains a fly speed equal to its base land speed, or it retains its natural fly speed (whichever is greater). However, movement is limited to straight lines only; a creature can change course only by pushing away from larger objects (such as bulkheads).
Carrying Capacity: A creature’s normal carrying capacity increases by 10 times in a zero-gravity environment. In addition, the creature gains a +20 bonus on any Strength check made to lift or move a heavy unsecured object.
Modified Bull Rush Rules: A creature affected by a bull rush is pushed back 10 feet, plus 10 feet for every 5 points by which its opponent’s Strength check result exceeds its own.
Weight vs. Mass
While an object in zero gravity loses weight, it does not lose mass or momentum. Thus, while a character could push a 10- ton piece of equipment around in space, albeit slowly, getting it to stop is a bit more difficult. If a character were to come between that piece of equipment and a solid object, that character would be crushed as if he were in full gravity—just more slowly.
For simplicity, assume that a Strength check to lift or move an object in zero gravity gains a +20 circumstance bonus. However, stopping an object already in motion does not receive this same bonus.

 

[ThirdWizard]

The first problem is that there are no real rules for how far you can push off with a levitate.

The second problem is the nature of directing yourself up or down. I'm inclined to say that after jumping, you could take a move action (assuming you haven't already used your second move for the round) to control your height (up to 20' per round). Therefore, you can jump, then use levitate to keep yourself up high.

The question becomes how far will a character go after having pushed off before they just stop in mid-air. It would probably be Strength related, but there is no precedent for this kind of thing.

I'd say make it a straight up Strength check, with the check equalling the number of squares moved (or you move 5' times the result), as a good start for a House Rule. So, if I roll a Strength check of 12 when I push off, the character goes 60 feet before stopping its foreward movement.

 

[Jon Potter]

The character would not be able to jump once the caster raises him with levitate. Levitate does not turn off gravity for a character, it raises or lowers them at the casters whims.

I should have mentioned that this is a single-use item (Dust of Levitation) applied by the character doing the jumping, so they're incontrol of when and how much Levitation comes into play - withint he parameters of the rules, of course.

If the Dm Desires to run levitate as turning gravity off...

I'm the DM and I don't. That opens a Can o' Worms™ that I'm not interested in opening.

LOW-GRAVITY ENVIRONMENTS
Skill Check Bonuses: Creatures in a low-gravity environment gain a +10 bonus on Strength-based skill checks (including Climb, Jump, and Swim checks).

Despite what I just said above, I think this is what I'll go with as far as a modifier to the Jump Check. Adding two squares of movement to the Jump doesn't seem overpowering and still gives a very real bonus to action.

Thanks for everyone's help!

 

[starwed]

I'll say this: The jump skill already breaks the laws of physics. (Especially the multiple rounds of movement thing.) So don't try and use them in figuring out how a magical levitation effect combines with jump. ^_^

Something simple like the +10 to jump is the way to go in abstract D&D world.

 

[Storyteller01]

You could cast levitate, than have him 'thrown' arcross. Different approach, less headache.