Jump skill as movement rather than a d20 roll

[Vrecknidj]

You could also even out the randomness by not using d20, use 5d4 instead. I mean, if all you're after is the approximation of the normal curve, use the existing rule with dice that generate a different (more-favorable-to-the-center) distribution of results.

Dave

 

[Laman Stahros]

Um, Genshou, you do know that that quote is from the 3.0 SRD (I think), don't you? THe copy of the SRD that I have (taken from WotC's site) does not say that.

JUMP (STR; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
Check: The DC and the distance you can cover vary according to the type of jump you are attempting (see below).

Your Jump check is modified by your speed. If your speed is 30 feet then no modifier based on speed applies to the check. If your speed is less than 30 feet, you take a –6 penalty for every 10 feet of speed less than 30 feet. If your speed is greater than 30 feet, you gain a +4 bonus for every 10 feet beyond 30 feet.

All Jump DCs given here assume that you get a running start, which requires that you move at least 20 feet in a straight line before attempting the jump. If you do not get a running start, the DC for the jump is doubled.

Distance moved by jumping is counted against your normal maximum movement in a round.

If you have ranks in Jump and you succeed on a Jump check, you land on your feet (when appropriate). If you attempt a Jump check untrained, you land prone unless you beat the DC by 5 or more.

In fact, other than were it says that distance covered counts as movement, the only mention of distance is in the charts showing the DCs.

 

[Ferret]

Your quote is from 3.5 edition. I just checked my book. Genshou has the 3.0 edition.

The jump check in the book looks fine, I could use either

 

[RangerWickett]

I'd like Jump rules to make jumping realistic at low levels, and then make it useful at high levels. A 1st level character should easily be able to jump 5 ft., and have the possibility of clearing a 15 ft. gap with a heroic effort. A 10th level character should be able to easily clear that 15 ft. gap, and be able to pull off Matrix jumps. I mean, at the same level we have wizards teleporting. A bit of heroic jumping won't break anything.

How about:

All characters can jump a distance equal to one-tenth their base speed as a standing jump, or twice that if they have a 20 ft. start. So typical human, when not straining himself, can jump 3 feet from a standing position, and 6 feet with a running jump.

Characters who need to jump farther make a Jump check, then consult the following table to see if they can clear the necessary distance. For running jumps, double the distance at any given DC.

Let's remove the existing bonus/penalty to Jump checks based on base speed.



Additional Feet . . . Jump DC
. . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . 10
. . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . 14
. . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . 17
. . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . 20
. . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . 22
. . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . 24
. . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . 26
. . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . 28
. . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . 29
. . . .10 . . . . . . . . . . 30
. . . .11 . . . . . . . . . . 31
. . . .12 . . . . . . . . . . 32
. . . .13 . . . . . . . . . . 33
. . . .14 . . . . . . . . . . 34
. . . .15 . . . . . . . . . . 35
. . . .17 . . . . . . . . . . 36
. . . .20 . . . . . . . . . . 37
. . . .23 . . . . . . . . . . 38
. . . .26 . . . . . . . . . . 39
. . . .30 . . . . . . . . . . 40

A character min-maxed for jumping can get pretty impressive jump checks, even in the core rules.

Core Rules
Half-Orc Barbarian 1/Rogue 1, 5 ranks Jump, 5 ranks Tumble, Skill Focus (Jump), Str 20. While raging he has a +17 bonus to Jump checks (+21 in the core rules because of his fast movement), so he can Take 10 and clear a 31-ft. gap on a running jump, or making a 15-ft. standing long jump.

Half-Orc Barbarian 11/Rogue 1, 15 ranks Jump, 5 ranks Tumble, Skill Focus (Jump), Acrobatic, Str 27 with belt of strength +4 (33 when raging), ring of jumping +10. While raging he has a +43 to Jump check (+47 in the core rules because of his fast movement). He can Take 10 and make a 28 ft. standing long jump. With a running jump he can clear 57 ft., or get an 14 ft. vertical Jump.

Half-Orc Monk 12, 15 ranks Jump, 5 ranks Tumble, Skill Focus and Acrobatic, Str 27 with belt, ring of jumping has +40 to Jump (+56 because of fast movement).

A half-Orc Monk 15/Druid 5 could wildshape into a Cheetah and, as part of a charge, get a speed of 550 ft, which would grant a +208 from speed. Add that to other jump bonuses at 20th level (23 ranks, +2 synergy, +5 from feats, likely +10 item, +10 Strength), and you've got a +258 bonus to Jump checks.

 

[genshou]

Um, Genshou, you do know that that quote is from the 3.0 SRD (I think), don't you? THe copy of the SRD that I have (taken from WotC's site) does not say that.

I do know that is from the 3.0 SRD. That is what I wrote in the quote tag, is it not?

In fact, other than were it says that distance covered counts as movement, the only mention of distance is in the charts showing the DCs.

I quoted the 3.0 rules to show that they are far more balanced than the ridiculous system that was spawned by the 3.5 "revolution." Each type of jump has a base DC of 10 and a minimum distance which is much more reliant on actual real-world jumping distances than 3.5, which follows a "for every 1 point of your check result, you jump 1 foot" system and just doubles the DC when you aren't doing a running jump, and uses a skill check modifier for different base speeds.

But there's no reason to need new rules. Just use the old ones, which have never caused problems for me (in fact, they work very well in no-magic games such as d20 Modern).

 

[jndiii]

Nice set of rules, but not really neccessary under 3.5. The idea that an untrained jumper (+0 mod) jumps 1 to 20 feet in combat isn't entirely accurate. The Jump check doesn't exactly tell you how far you've jumped, just whether or not you've beat the DC for a particular distance. So jumping a 10' ditch has three outcomes:

Beat DC = Successfully jumped
Missed DC by less than 5 = Missed, but close enough to try grabbing for far edge.
Missed DC by more than 5 = Missed, fall in ditch

No "I rolled a 2, I only jumped 2 feet" - it's just a miss. Just changing the paradigm of what the jump roll represents - success or failure, rather than actual distance - made a huge difference to me, and I like the change for the revised edition.

Differences in speed and heights are accounted for in 3.5 as well, so, IMHO, I don't see this variant as neccessary.

I don't disagree with your logic, and it's appropriate for most circumstances, especially with regards to missing the jump DC. The problem is that being able to roll a 20 implies that, just due to a "fluke of combat", you somehow manage to jump a distance 10 feet further than you normally would when taking 10. Granted, that would only be 5% of the time, but it should be 0%.

Similarly for the suggestion of using 5d4 to narrow the curve misses two points -- 1) let's keep it simple, and 2) the chance to manage 10 extra feet should be 0%, not 1/1024.

The reason I introduce using the Balance skill for handling landings is to keep the randomized part. The players shouldn't be 100% confident of safety if their jump movement just barely covers the distance.

Heck, the first response I had to this from a player of mine was that they objected to my use of the Balance skill, since "no one would ever take it." I conceded that the Tumble skill would be similarly useful, so long as the ground wasn't treacherous, or they weren't trying to land on a narrow ledge.

The other reason for regarding Jump as a movement rather than a skill is that insofar as magic items are concerned, it quickly becomes absurdly more expensive to jump a few extra feet than it does to fly for long periods of time. Under 3.5, a +30 ring of jumping would cost 90k gp. All flying magic items cost much less than that. By classifying jumping as a kind of movement, it becomes possible to price magic items commensurately.

With regards to doing the same with the Swim skill, I find it unnecessary. Swim speed is already a movement. The purpose of the Swim skill is to allow someone who doesn't -have- a swim speed to maneuver in water with some degree of confidence. Creatures with a Swim speed generally don't need to roll swimming checks.