Jumping while Charging?

[Three_Haligonians]

I wouldn't allow it. If you think about a line in three dimensions (no nitpicking, mathmeticians!), and if there is something on the ground, making it necessary to jump during your charge, then your line is no longer straight.

Besides that, I think of the Jump skill not so much like being able to hop well, but more like the way a long-jumper jumps. There is a lot of physical effort involved to jump a great distance. A long jumper uses his arms and legs constantly when jumping, while in the air, and while preparing to land. I think of Jump as taking a separate move action.

R and T from Three Haligonians

 

[Bigwilly]

Magic

I think of Jump as taking a separate move action.

I guess that I have been pretty easy-going on the jump-charging dwarf, mainly because he is using a ring of jumping. I might be getting my 3.0 confused with 3.5 but the jump spell includes a line about landing safely if you made the jump check. So even if you assume a move action followed by a partial (jump)-charge, a dwarf can still move 40 ft and make a charge attack. With a major ring of jumping that means a potential 30+ feet of movement in the jump-charge action. Besides I think it's pretty cool when a plate armored dwarf suddenly leaps across the room and plants his waraxe in someone's chest (even if it is one on my NPCs).

Bigwilly

 

[Three_Haligonians]

Besides I think it's pretty cool when a plate armored dwarf suddenly leaps across the room and plants his waraxe in someone's chest (even if it is one on my NPCs).

I might change my mind. That is pretty cool

 

[Zoatebix]

I wouldn't allow it. If you think about a line in three dimensions (no nitpicking, mathmeticians!), and if there is something on the ground, making it necessary to jump during your charge, then your line is no longer straight.

Since I'm not a mathemetician, can I nitpick?

Just out of curiostity, how strict of an interpretation of "straight line" do you plan on following? If a warrior charges down a hill to an enemy who is positioned ten feet away from where the ground evens out, is he not allowed to make an attack because the topography prevents him from moving in a "straight line"?

It seems to me like arguing an exacting interpretation of "strait-line" ends up an interpretive slippery-slope (no pun intended).

But, there might be logical pitfalls in the other direction that I'm overlooking, too. Thoughts?
-George

 

[Three_Haligonians]

Since I'm not a mathemetician, can I nitpick?

I'll allow it . But seriously, you make a good point. I hadn't really thought about that. No, I wouldn't rule against a downhill-plateau charge, that would be too rules-lawyer even for me. I suppose my point really is about changing direction mid-charge. There is no (or negligable) effort involved in changing from sloping to even ground. There is (I think . . . I'm no physicist) a lot more effort to run around a pile of rubble, or jumping over said rubble. The effort you spend changing direction drastically like that would cause you to lose momentum significantly. I can't imagine a charge being effective if you have to weave between obstacles, or jump over hurdles. After all, there's a reason why a 100 metre hurdles takes a lot more time than a 100 metre sprint.

So that's what I think. Until someone else makes another good point.

R from Three Haligonians

 

[ARandomGod]

Some people have said this already, but I'll throw in my text too.

You completely can. Of course, you have to have a line of charge... and you have to move 10' before the jump to jump. But jump is part of a normal move... and if you're making a normal move you obviously are not impeeded in any way.

Tumble is a slightly different story, you clearly cannot if you have to slow down, but if you can make that DC to not slow... well, you weren't really impeeded, although a normal person would have been. Therefore your incredible ability to tumble overcame that impediment that would normally stop a charge, so I'd allow that charge.

And, of course, there are abilities that allow you do to that sort of thing without needing to make the skill checks. But then again rangers can two weapon fight even if their dex is 8. It's true! Look it up!!

 

[ARandomGod]

Wow, that almost seems hostile in reaction. I mere stated an ability of a class that does what you were wanting. And I don't care if anything doesn't "wash" with you. If you allow ANYBODY do an Acrobatic Charge as per the ability for said classes, you are making those classes less valuable. If you wanted this as a normal ability then I would suggest making this class ability a general feat, thereby every character has the possibility of taking it. Anybody can attempt to do the charge without the feat, but the dc's are at +15 or +20 to do so.

As I real the first line, I agreed with you. I thought that, if it came across as hostile it's probably because of a kneejerk reaction built up by people who have a tendancy to say "there's a way to do it this way, therefore there CAN BE NO OTHER WAY!!". Which clearly you weren't saying. On the other hand, reading the above quote further lead me to belive that I was wrong and that is indeed what you were implying.

PS, Every character can jump too, by taking the skill levels. So this isn't really making it something others can't do. Oh, and I don't see an issue saying that the suggested feat wouldn't be a good one. It would be especially good for people without the relevant skill points. ^_^

 

[ARandomGod]

I'll allow it . But seriously, you make a good point. I hadn't really thought about that. No, I wouldn't rule against a downhill-plateau charge, that would be too rules-lawyer even for me. I suppose my point really is about changing direction mid-charge. There is no (or negligable) effort involved in changing from sloping to even ground. There is (I think . . . I'm no physicist) a lot more effort to run around a pile of rubble, or jumping over said rubble. The effort you spend changing direction drastically like that would cause you to lose momentum significantly. I can't imagine a charge being effective if you have to weave between obstacles, or jump over hurdles. After all, there's a reason why a 100 metre hurdles takes a lot more time than a 100 metre sprint.

So that's what I think. Until someone else makes another good point.

R from Three Haligonians

But there is considerable effort in running down hill, even without the plateau at the bottom. Add one of those and it does change quite a bit. In general it's always forced me to stop, even were I to want to continue running. If you don't believe me, go find a decent hill and try it.

Run *around* a pile of rubble? Definitely not capable of charging. Jump over it however, there's not that much effort in it, not more than running down a 45 degree slope at any rate, especially not for someone with several ranks in jumping. Hell, such a person might jump in the middle of a move sometimes even if there is nothing to jump over.

A 100 meter hurdles? There are a lot of jumps involved in that... and I don't think that you can charge 100 meters anyhow. But true, real world says that a jump will slow you down, at least if you're a pro-runner (it can speed others up, in xome circumstances, not haveing to use those short legs). But the rules as written say that jumping is part of a normal move, and does not slow you down. Therefore the movement is in no way impeeded.

 

[ARandomGod]

I wouldn't allow it. If you think about a line in three dimensions (no nitpicking, mathmeticians!), and if there is something on the ground, making it necessary to jump during your charge, then your line is no longer straight.

Besides that, I think of the Jump skill not so much like being able to hop well, but more like the way a long-jumper jumps. There is a lot of physical effort involved to jump a great distance. A long jumper uses his arms and legs constantly when jumping, while in the air, and while preparing to land. I think of Jump as taking a separate move action.

R and T from Three Haligonians

And here you have the real reason (IMO) that people don't like/allow it. Sure, by core RAW it's clearly allowed, non impeeded movement. There is no obsticle, by the definition of obsticle: "One that opposes, stands in the way of, or holds up progress." If you can jump it without slowing down, it clearly hasn't successfully opposed your progress, stood in your way, nor held up your progress.

On the other hand, and I quote: "I think of Jump as taking a separate move action."
Which a lot of people do. Despite the fact that it's written as not being in any way a seperate move action.

 

[Judas]

As I real the first line, I agreed with you. I thought that, if it came across as hostile it's probably because of a kneejerk reaction built up by people who have a tendancy to say "there's a way to do it this way, therefore there CAN BE NO OTHER WAY!!". Which clearly you weren't saying. On the other hand, reading the above quote further lead me to belive that I was wrong and that is indeed what you were implying.

PS, Every character can jump too, by taking the skill levels. So this isn't really making it something others can't do. Oh, and I don't see an issue saying that the suggested feat wouldn't be a good one. It would be especially good for people without the relevant skill points. ^_^

See, the thing with reading text is that you can never hear tone of voice, or any inflections in said tone. I did not bother to try to clarify my position on the issue, because some people, no matter what reasons or logic you present before them, never listen to anything but what they want to hear. If you think I was impling anything, then so be it. Sure, with RAW, it may be possible in certain situations and I would handle each as presented. But as a blanket answer to allowing it?

If I'm DM'ing a session and a dwarf in full plate wants to jump charge an opponent, I might consider it. Does he want to jump over a table or another obstacle, and stay in mid air to stike his opponent? Slim chance. Would I still allow it? Possibly. Luckily, I have a group that only has one player who tries things like this, but he's a swashbuckler, and follows rules of the PrC. I don't typically get situations that push the line of disbelief.