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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 7717896" data-attributes="member: 2525">I agree. If you give disadvantage to someone's ability score, they "experience the spells effects". Much like when my P.C. is hit by one of those nasty undead or necromantic creatures than drain my Con, I have definitely "experienced the effects" of that attack! Now I suppose you could argue some is not aware their charisma or wisdom has been decreased until they interact with someone else? But I am pretty sure they'll know relatively quickly. And I'd think with strength, dexterity, constitution, or intelligence, you'd "experience the effects" right away. And realistically I am probably not going to play games with treating one ability score differently than others and probably would make anyone "experience the effect" right away for any disadvantage or decrease to an ability score (and disadvantage roughly "feels" like a -5 drain to that ability score). And if anyone is going to argue that "disadvantage" is not "experienced" like damage, if a spell gives you disadvantage to attacks and saves, is there any reasonable question that you're experiencing that? Would anyone really argue (outside of trying to win an argument on the Internet about pedantic game rules) that a PC who has disadvantage to attack isn't experiencing an effect?In fact, if we're going to quibble, why would "damage" to an ability score be treated meaningfully differently than damage to hit points, given hit points are supposed to be some combination of your measure of luck and skill and endurance and blessing by the Gods and many other factors? You could reasonably argue you don't "experience" the loss of hit points as a character in the world until the last hit point, or at least half the hit points, are gone. Yet I know of zero people who would claim the PC doesn't "experience the effect" of a spell that causes damage to hit points.  Yeah, you're giving disadvantage to their ability score. I mean, is a ray of enfeeblement an attack? I think the answer is obviously yes.  So why wouldn't this be? They might not be certain what direction the attack came from, but that's not much different than an invisible and hidden foe zapping you with a ray of enfeeblement.  You might not know who cast the spell, but you know you are experiencing the effects of a spell attack and you should have the opportunity to take an action (like yelling "Guards, I am under attack from an unseen foe, seal the room and seek them out!").</blockquote>

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