Just Plain Broken

[Ace32]

Having spent some time reading the thread on broken balance and expansions (here), I got wondering what stuff I should be on the look out for as a DM.

I allow my players to pick and choose from books as they please (tho I limit the # of books any one character can draw from by level, keeping cherry picking down) and don't have time to read for every possible combination with 8 players... So I've got to wonder, what are the worst offenders from the various WotC sourcebooks? Feel free to include Eberron and Realms stuff, as long as its WotC, lets see it! (Not that I don't allow 3rd party stuff, I just want to limit the scope of the thread some )

This includes prestige classes, feats, skill combos, anything. Be sure to cite the source!

Edit: Dur, should probably put the thread link in...

 

[BlackMoria]

One person's 'broken' is another person's 'its fine'. There's the rub. With maybe exceptions like the Frenzied Berserker (which seems mostly ubiquious for being labeled 'broken'), you will not likely get a clear consensus on what is 'broken'.

It is not the 'broken' stuff that is a danger to a campaign. It is 'build'meisters who know their way around a rulebook and can craft incredibly powerful characters which can take a normally benign concept and supercharge it until, for a DM, that concept, feat, combination, etc. becomes a problem for said DM.

 

[Rystil Arden]

One person's 'broken' is another person's 'its fine'. There's the rub. With maybe exceptions like the Frenzied Berserker (which seems mostly ubiquious for being labeled 'broken'), you will not likely get a clear consensus on what is 'broken'.

It is not the 'broken' stuff that is a danger to a campaign. It is 'build'meisters who know their way around a rulebook and can craft incredibly powerful characters which can take a normally benign concept and supercharge it until, for a DM, that concept, feat, combination, etc. becomes a problem for said DM.

This is true. However, it is generally the case that abilities that grant extra actions for no major opportunity cost (3.0 Haste, Belt of Battle, etc) are always broken unless everyone has access to them and always takes them.

Things like Dweomercheater of Mystra, Divine Metamagic, Wraithstrike, and even Frenzied Berserker can ruin your game, and probably will ruin most games, but won't ruin every game (I've not had a major problem with FB in one of the games I run although msot people do, and I know Mistwell has had Wraithstrike work in his games although it breaks most games). As BlackMoria implies, you have to find out what works for you.

 

[Doug McCrae]

My favourite solution is to allow almost everything but stop the game around 10th level. It's hard for anything to get out of hand by then. Wraithstrike is still reasonable as BAB isn't that high. Not much SR so the orb spells are okay. Druids are getting a bit broken if they use the Spell Compendium but not outrageous. I'd even allow Abjurant Champion despite its obvious wrongness.

However I would ban Frenzied Berserker as a player class cause it screws over the players that didn't take it - very unfair.

 

[GlassJaw]

My favourite solution is to allow almost everything but stop the game around 10th level. It's hard for anything to get out of hand by then. Wraithstrike is still reasonable as BAB isn't that high. Not much SR so the orb spells are okay. Druids are getting a bit broken if they use the Spell Compendium but not outrageous. I'd even allow Abjurant Champion despite its obvious wrongness.

However I would ban Frenzied Berserker as a player class cause it screws over the players that didn't take it - very unfair.

Heh, I was just about to post "anything above level 12 and the frenzied berserker".

 

[Arkhandus]

Frenzied Berserker, Ur-Priest, Radiant Servant of Pelor. Those are the prestige classes that jump immediately to mind.

People can willfully try to make them un-broken, but the classes are written to be Barbarian+++ and Cleric+++, so anyone playing them even remotely like they're written to be played will be Uber.

Best to just avoid them altogether rather than allow them to be potentially abused, as they're hard not to.

Let's see, what else...... FEATS: Divine Metamagic, and Arcane Strike. I would advise banning these. It's harder to only allow them for characters that won't abuse them, as people will at some point insist that they should be able to use them too......and at some point that will lead to use of these for broken combos.

ALSO....Exalted feats. And the Vows from Book of Exalted Deeds. There are several really broken things in there, just not worth allowing that book to begin with. Similarly the Book of Vile Darkness, what with the vile damage effects and whatnot; I've never actually looked in the BoVD so I don't know what exactly it has, but from reading posts about some of the problem material in there I would advise against using it; the BoED I did look at briefly, and it was pretty obvious how broken some of the stuff was (Touch of Golden Ice was one such broken feat, IIRC; and Ravages are just plain lame).

The Duskblade class, from Player's Handbook II, may also be problematic/broken, but I'm not as certain of that as I didn't take a serious look at it when I skimmed through parts of a gaming friend's copy of PHB2. It's certainly a strong class, but it may or may not be broken, depending on how some of its abilities work (as I recall there's quite some ambiguity in there).

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'd say the Warblade.

It's one weakness is that it ain't usually that great at range.

Other than that, it's Fighter+++.

I'd also say the Warforged.

They don't have to manage resources and they're immune to what a lot of peasants and PC's fear in an environment or adversary (poisons, energy drain, disease, drowning, starvation, exhaustion, etc.). Don't send them up against necromancers, jungles, or deserts.

Other than that, it's Dwarf+++.

 

[Cameron]

Let's see, what else...... FEATS: Divine Metamagic, and Arcane Strike.

Please explain how the above are broken?

 

[Rystil Arden]

Please explain how the above are broken?

Divine Metamagic can give absurd metamagic that was never meant to be (Persistent and Quickened spells of your highest level). If you put the regular limits on it that you can't use it to Metamagic above your maximum spell level available, it should be fine.

Arcane Strike, on the other hand, I'm not sure why he called it out. It's a fair and reasonable feat. My guess: he's seen a Wraithstrike build that also has Arcane Strike in it and made Arcane Strike look worse than it is.

 

[Arkhandus]

Not going to bother here. As I said, more a matter of mitigating any broken combos than anything else; best to just ban one problematic piece of the puzzle so that said combos will never arise.

Anyway, there is something I forgot to mention, that KM did. The Warblade class, from Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords. It's mildly or moderately broken, pretty much because it gets martial maneuvers/stances along with its other class features (which, by themselves, would leave it a bit weak). Warblades won't always outshine other classes, unlike Frenzied Berserkers or the like, but they are incredibly tough (again, not so insanely as FB's though) and fairly hard-hitting. So unless the other party members are powergaming and the Warblade player isn't so much, it will be broken in a normal party.


Also, a side-note: If allowing material from the Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords, don't allow any magic or psionic items that boost skills, except for the ones that are specifically named and statted out in the DMG (Ring of Jumping: probably OK. Customized magic ring of +10 Concentration? Very broken with ToB:Bo9S).

Reason is that a few skills get some wierd, very effective uses in the Tome of Battle for martial adepts who learn the right maneuvers, and the effects of certain maneuvers are directly proportional to the results of a skill check; a Swordsage or Warblade using Greater Insightful Strike isn't so bad, but if they get their grubby little hands on a magic item that jacks up their Concentration skill by +10 or +20, for instance, they'll be doing much more damage with Greater Insightful Strike (and getting much higher saving throws when using Moment of Perfect Mind, Action Before Thought, etc.).

The main skills I can think of that present this problem are Concentration and Jump (and the latter is less significant; I think there's only one maneuver that has its damage output or something based on a Jump check, while other maneuvers are just helped out, but not broken, when used with a +Jump item).