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General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Justifying high level 'guards', 'pirates', 'soldiers', 'assassins', etc.
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<blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 4487616" data-attributes="member: 58197"><p>That's a bit different, though. The solo/elite/regular/minion system is designed on the idea that, power-wise, a 1st-level solo equals a 6th-level elite equals a 10th-level regular monster equals an 18th-level minion. (Whether this is actually true is left as an exercise for the reader.) So a guardsman who was a 1st-level regular monster can be "abstracted" into a 9th-level minion; his power level isn't changing and he still presents the same level of threat to the PCs. He's just been simplified for DM convenience.</p><p></p><p>This thread seems to be more about what happens and how it's justified when you run into a guardsman who's a 9th-level regular monster, not a minion.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hmm... as long as one bears in mind that when a story breaks the reader's suspension of disbelief, that's not generally good for the story. Traveling At The Speed Of Plot is a very handy technique and I use it regularly; but it is also dangerously seductive, because it can lead you to get increasingly careless about details until suddenly the PCs say, "Hey, wait a minute. It took us three days to get to the Darkhold last time and all we had to do was walk down a level road. How come now it's a five-week journey and there's a mountain range in the way?"</p><p></p><p>NPC power levels are similar. You can fudge them to some extent for the convenience of the game. But if you do it too much, and too extensively, it will break suspension of disbelief. At least in my experience, players expect a certain consistency in the world. Epic-level heroes expect that if they have trouble with it, it's an epic-level threat, with everything that entails in terms of its impact on the game world.</p><p></p><p>Moreover, as a DM, consistent NPC power level is a useful tool. If I send a band of 15th-level non-minion assassins at my PCs, and I've established that I am consistent with power levels, they won't shrug it off as just another fight. They'll say, "Holy crap, those guys were <em>good</em>. Way too good for a bunch of hired thugs. Somebody big is out to get us." I've just created dramatic tension and a plot hook, simply by using high-level foes. Every time you sacrifice consistency for story, you're sacrificing a chance to drop clues like that - chances for the PCs to figure out something about your game world. Call it the <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect" target="_blank">Worf Effect</a>. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>None of this is to say the NPCs mentioned by the original poster are suspension-of-disbelief-breaking. I haven't read the adventure, so I can't say; and I can certainly imagine situations where it would be wholly appropriate to have the party attacked by 15th-level assassins. But if I were a PC in such a group, I would have the above reaction: "Holy hell, those guys were bad-ass. Where did <em>they</em> come from?" If the adventure didn't offer a reasonably satisfying answer eventually, I would feel cheated.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dausuul, post: 4487616, member: 58197"] That's a bit different, though. The solo/elite/regular/minion system is designed on the idea that, power-wise, a 1st-level solo equals a 6th-level elite equals a 10th-level regular monster equals an 18th-level minion. (Whether this is actually true is left as an exercise for the reader.) So a guardsman who was a 1st-level regular monster can be "abstracted" into a 9th-level minion; his power level isn't changing and he still presents the same level of threat to the PCs. He's just been simplified for DM convenience. This thread seems to be more about what happens and how it's justified when you run into a guardsman who's a 9th-level regular monster, not a minion. Hmm... as long as one bears in mind that when a story breaks the reader's suspension of disbelief, that's not generally good for the story. Traveling At The Speed Of Plot is a very handy technique and I use it regularly; but it is also dangerously seductive, because it can lead you to get increasingly careless about details until suddenly the PCs say, "Hey, wait a minute. It took us three days to get to the Darkhold last time and all we had to do was walk down a level road. How come now it's a five-week journey and there's a mountain range in the way?" NPC power levels are similar. You can fudge them to some extent for the convenience of the game. But if you do it too much, and too extensively, it will break suspension of disbelief. At least in my experience, players expect a certain consistency in the world. Epic-level heroes expect that if they have trouble with it, it's an epic-level threat, with everything that entails in terms of its impact on the game world. Moreover, as a DM, consistent NPC power level is a useful tool. If I send a band of 15th-level non-minion assassins at my PCs, and I've established that I am consistent with power levels, they won't shrug it off as just another fight. They'll say, "Holy crap, those guys were [I]good[/I]. Way too good for a bunch of hired thugs. Somebody big is out to get us." I've just created dramatic tension and a plot hook, simply by using high-level foes. Every time you sacrifice consistency for story, you're sacrificing a chance to drop clues like that - chances for the PCs to figure out something about your game world. Call it the [URL="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect"]Worf Effect[/URL]. :) None of this is to say the NPCs mentioned by the original poster are suspension-of-disbelief-breaking. I haven't read the adventure, so I can't say; and I can certainly imagine situations where it would be wholly appropriate to have the party attacked by 15th-level assassins. But if I were a PC in such a group, I would have the above reaction: "Holy hell, those guys were bad-ass. Where did [I]they[/I] come from?" If the adventure didn't offer a reasonably satisfying answer eventually, I would feel cheated. [/QUOTE]
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