Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Justifying high level 'guards', 'pirates', 'soldiers', 'assassins', etc.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 4938670" data-attributes="member: 53980"><p>What Gort said.</p><p></p><p>Also, King's Guard was just a name I picked out of a hat to use for my example. It could have just as easily been Elite Guild of Assassins in the employ of BBEG. While I've never actually used any creature in the above manner (having it appear as all 4 types: solo, elite, standard, and minion, at different levels in one campaign) I think it would be a pretty interesting way to demonstrate for the players just how much they've improved. </p><p></p><p>"Remember how this all started, when that Shadow Hand Ninja came after us and it was all we could do to fight him off and protect our town? Then there were those two Ninja brothers who nearly killed us. And who could forget the Five... But now we just hacked our way through their entire ninja guild and killed their leader... craziness!"</p><p></p><p>I've reskinned elites to standards to similar effect with success. (I've also had success with Solos, though I admit it's tricky in that you usually don't want them to actually go it solo).</p><p></p><p>The whole point of the above idea is to use a recurring enemy type to denote the PCs growth. You could use a level 18 minion in place of a level 1 solo, but then instead of giving the PCs the impression that the elite ninjas are mega bad*** you instead give them the impression that the ninja are mega pansies (albeit very skilled mega pansies only hit on a natural 20) who drop after one lucky shot or from getting too near a Flaming Sphere. The solo will give them a real battle whereas the minion gives them a whiff-fest until someone thinks to bring out the auto-damage or gets lucky (which could just as well be the first round of combat as a later one). High level minion is not the impression I want to give regarding an elite order of assassins that I intend to hunt the players into late paragon. </p><p></p><p>My PCs will feel plenty special after they exterminate the jerks that have been hounding them the past 18 levels without me arbitrarily restricting assassins to level 4 (or minion status). As I stated in my earlier post, IMO, restricting NPCs to such low levels produces an incoherent world (where everyone ought to have been eaten by ogres because they can't fight them off). NPCs should at least have the capacity to maintain their status quo under normal conditions. PCs are the people that get called in when those conditions change or when the NPCs decide they are tired of the status quo; the PCs are the movers and shakers.</p><p></p><p>Try thinking of it this way... when you alter a creature from standard to minion you increase its ability to hit while reducing damage (and conditions) and increasing its defenses while reducing its hps. Ability to hit and potential damage are both factors of its capacity to hurt you, just as defenses and hp are both factors of avoiding hurt. By increasing one but lowering the other you're (hypothetically) keeping the creature at the same hurt dealing and taking capacity, it's just that now it's more interesting to fight if you've scaled it right (because the PCs can hit it and it can hit the PCs). IME, fights are always better in D&D when both sides can hit.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fanaelialae, post: 4938670, member: 53980"] What Gort said. Also, King's Guard was just a name I picked out of a hat to use for my example. It could have just as easily been Elite Guild of Assassins in the employ of BBEG. While I've never actually used any creature in the above manner (having it appear as all 4 types: solo, elite, standard, and minion, at different levels in one campaign) I think it would be a pretty interesting way to demonstrate for the players just how much they've improved. "Remember how this all started, when that Shadow Hand Ninja came after us and it was all we could do to fight him off and protect our town? Then there were those two Ninja brothers who nearly killed us. And who could forget the Five... But now we just hacked our way through their entire ninja guild and killed their leader... craziness!" I've reskinned elites to standards to similar effect with success. (I've also had success with Solos, though I admit it's tricky in that you usually don't want them to actually go it solo). The whole point of the above idea is to use a recurring enemy type to denote the PCs growth. You could use a level 18 minion in place of a level 1 solo, but then instead of giving the PCs the impression that the elite ninjas are mega bad*** you instead give them the impression that the ninja are mega pansies (albeit very skilled mega pansies only hit on a natural 20) who drop after one lucky shot or from getting too near a Flaming Sphere. The solo will give them a real battle whereas the minion gives them a whiff-fest until someone thinks to bring out the auto-damage or gets lucky (which could just as well be the first round of combat as a later one). High level minion is not the impression I want to give regarding an elite order of assassins that I intend to hunt the players into late paragon. My PCs will feel plenty special after they exterminate the jerks that have been hounding them the past 18 levels without me arbitrarily restricting assassins to level 4 (or minion status). As I stated in my earlier post, IMO, restricting NPCs to such low levels produces an incoherent world (where everyone ought to have been eaten by ogres because they can't fight them off). NPCs should at least have the capacity to maintain their status quo under normal conditions. PCs are the people that get called in when those conditions change or when the NPCs decide they are tired of the status quo; the PCs are the movers and shakers. Try thinking of it this way... when you alter a creature from standard to minion you increase its ability to hit while reducing damage (and conditions) and increasing its defenses while reducing its hps. Ability to hit and potential damage are both factors of its capacity to hurt you, just as defenses and hp are both factors of avoiding hurt. By increasing one but lowering the other you're (hypothetically) keeping the creature at the same hurt dealing and taking capacity, it's just that now it's more interesting to fight if you've scaled it right (because the PCs can hit it and it can hit the PCs). IME, fights are always better in D&D when both sides can hit. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Justifying high level 'guards', 'pirates', 'soldiers', 'assassins', etc.
Top