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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 4943137" data-attributes="member: 18280">So, is "cinematic" taken to mean "the protagonists always win" or "the protagonists always survive"?  Because I can easily point to cinema where either is not the case.  Also, you seem to be ignoring the opposite part of your previous statement -- that too easy is not cinematic.....as though Batman or Bond ploughing through mooks never happens, and Indiana Jones never just shot a guy rather than have a big fight scene.You seem to be arguing along a sliding definition here.EDIT related to STRAWMEN:  Celebrim is not attempting to misrepresent your position.  He is suggesting, rather, that you are not representing your opinion adequately or honestly (intentionally or not) because what you are saying is not logically consistent.  And what you are saying is not logically consistent.For example, despite what you claim is a strawman above, you did not say that you didn't like E6 merely because it was dull.  Your exact words were "4e models cinematic play better than any edition to date. E6 does it extremely poorly."One can hardly blame someone for thinking that Snoweel doesn't like E6 because its not 'cinematic' if Snoweel said that E6 does cinematic play "extremely poorly".  One can hardly blame someone for thinking that Snoweel equates 'cinematic' with 'epic' if, he also says "grim'n'gritty = dull" and "I don't like E6 because its dull".The full statementSuggesting E6 as a superior alternative to 4e misses the point that grim'n'gritty = dull. 4e models cinematic play better than any edition to date. E6 does it extremely poorly.suggests more than slightly that cinematic and grim'n'gritty are polar opposites, and the remainder of your statements strengthen this suggestion.  That you then change terms to "epic" to oppose grim'n'gritty, strongly suggests that you equate the two.  Again, any examination of your statements reinforces this suggestion.Perhaps you could supply a definition of "cinematic" and "epic" that are both meaningful and not co-equal?RC</blockquote>

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