Keeping low level commoners competitive in athletics

[Asmor]

I just came up with a cool idea for a fantasy sport (it's kind of like a cross between lacrosse and ultimate frisbee, except you use a plain stick and a ring which you have to catch and throw with the stick) and I think it'd be fun to give the players a chance to play it...

The big problem, though, is that I'm not really sure how to stat an athlete-- someone who's good at the game, but not much more skilled than a 1st level commoner.

I'm thinking the best route here might be to make it a skill, with a special feat that grants a +4 bonus. I'd allow a portion of your BAB to add to the skill, which would basically mean that the players could improve at the game, but unless they actually spend some skill points on it (or-- Pelor forbid-- a feat!), it's entirely likely that a 1st level commoner who's trained extensively could be a challenge for them.

Something like this (note that the name of the game is Bally, which rhymes with Rally, not Folly):

Bally (Dex)
Check: You make a Bally check when attempting to throw or catch a Ballyring.
Action: Throwing a Bally ring is a standard action. Catching one is an immediate action.
Try Again: No
Special: You add one half your BAB to your Bally checks. In addition, if you have Weapon Focus for any thrown weapon, or any other bonuses on attack rolls for thrown weapons, you add that to your Bally Checks. For example, a halfling gets a +1 racial bonus on Bally checks because of his race's aptitude with thrown weapons.

Bally Training
You have spent a lot of time and effort training in the sport of Bally.
Benefit: You get a +4 competence bonus on all Bally Checks.

So what do you guys think of that?

 

[Tonguez]

I wouldn't make a specific skill (since next time you iunvent a game you'll have to create another one) but the feat idea is good (compromise = create a general 'bat/ball sports skill'

For me personally I'd allow the players to weild a Bally Stick using BAb and use a system of DCs to simulate the sport

eg a Bally Ring has both a catch DC and a Pass DC* (a bad pass makes the Catch DC higher)

*I use a movement skill IMC however normal MV rules might apply, with 'tackles' being resolved as Trip attempts

From start Mcginty is carrying the Bally and passes off to Rakur (DC 15) but the Halfling rolls a 12 (-3 penalty) that means Rakur has to Catch at a +3 penalty (DC 10 +3(penalty)) But look the Gnome from the opposing team has come up from behind Rakur and is moving in to intercept (Mv check = tumbling into an occupied square). The pair go into a bally rally their sticks clashing (opposed BAb checks) and Rakur wins taking the bally back into possession

 

[Nifft]

Why would someone who's trained extensively remain a 1st level Commoner?

Expert levels are good for talented NPCs.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Imp]

Athletes? Crank their physical stats! Like, 16 or even 18 Dex. No reason every NPC's gotta fit in the normal or even elite array.

Consider giving them movement-based feats that PCs hardly ever take. Dash, Run, Leap of the Heavens, etc.

 

[nittanytbone]

You could just make it a ranged attack roll to throw, then add a feat like this:

Bally Focus

Benefit: This feat functions as "weapon focus," except it permits a +3 bonus to-hit with Bally equipment.

A first level commoner with this feat and perhaps something like Dash, along wtih 13 Dex, could have a +4 "to hit" modifier, meaning he hits an AC10 target about half the time. Not bad for a farmer. If he's managed to acquire a masterwork Bally Stick then the odds are even better. And god-forbid the local adept cast Guidance and Bless on him before the match!

 

[Asmor]

When I was originally thinking about this I did actually want to have everything based on entirely on attack rolls... I still think a skill makes more sense (maybe not a specific skill, but a sports skill at least), because it's easy for someone to get a good bonus to the skill without also being good at combat. Otherwise a PC who's even a few levels higher than the NPCs would probably have a distinct advantage.

 

[Darklone]

When I was originally thinking about this I did actually want to have everything based on entirely on attack rolls... I still think a skill makes more sense (maybe not a specific skill, but a sports skill at least), because it's easy for someone to get a good bonus to the skill without also being good at combat. Otherwise a PC who's even a few levels higher than the NPCs would probably have a distinct advantage.

Most sportsmen I know are good fighters... even if they don't know how to fight. Physical prowess is much more important than fighting knowledge (assuming some basic knowledge is existant).

 

[Tonguez]

When I was originally thinking about this I did actually want to have everything based on entirely on attack rolls... I still think a skill makes more sense (maybe not a specific skill, but a sports skill at least), because it's easy for someone to get a good bonus to the skill without also being good at combat. Otherwise a PC who's even a few levels higher than the NPCs would probably have a distinct advantage.

Remember Blitz Ball - A skilled player being able to use the Bally as an offensive weapon is what Fantasy sports is all about!

But a new Dex based skill still works if you want to go that direction

 

[Wolfwood2]

I suggest a compromise. Skills are intended to be broadly useful things. This is what Profession skills are created for.

Profession: Athlete (Dex, Str, or Wis)
Special: Unlike most Profession skills, Profession: Athlete may use strength or dexterity rather than wisdom, depending on the sport being played. A DM may impose the usual cirumstance penalties when attempting to apply the skill to an unfamiliar sport.
Synergies: 5 ranks in Jump, Tumble, or Balance will grant a +2 synergy bonus to Profession: Athlete. These bonuses stack.

The synergy bonuses ensure that a PC who loads up on the physical types skills will be able to do pretty good, even without specific sports trianing.

 

[Corsair]

Keeping low level commoners competitive? Easy. Have them play against other low level commoners.

Just like in the real world, if you took some guys who play softball on the weekends for fun and have them play against the American League All Stars, they will get blown away. A pro athlete isn't a Commoner 1 or 2. They are experts (and warriors in some cases) with more than a couple levels under their belt.