Keeping My 5e Players Happy

[TenkayCrit]

Hello fellow gamers!

So, I've got a bit of an issue with my players and need some feedback/advice. I had a session recently with my 5e group and there was a TPK. That's not the issue (why have hp if there's no chance of death?), the issue is how my players reacted to it.

They walked into a room that had an Elder Brain controlling a blue dragon. The dragon instantly killed my ranger in its first lightning attack. I gave her a free extra dex save to try again, she failed again. The rest of the group put up a good fight, but eventually succumbed to the combined attacks.

I did not toss them into this fight with no way out, I gave them the option to fight or to take the prize (a cure for a deadly poison that had infected an orc warlord that wanted peace) and leave. The brain let them have the first strike. I gave them hints that they could use the environment to harm the brain, which they did and almost killed the brain. I also nerfed the fight by removing the legendary actions.

After the fight when everyone was dead I told them Paladine spoke to them and said "Now is not the hour of your death," and offered them a chance to return to life as long as they loyaly serve him. They don't know it's the Elder Brain screwing with them and wanting to take advantage of their powers. They all took the option and are now alive outside the dungeon.

I gave them the xp they would have gotten if they killed the brain and they don't lose their characters. However, several players seemed really grumpy, especially the ranger.

My question is: did I do anything wrong here? I want my players to have fun each session, but I also want to challenge them. How do you other DMs deal with things like this?

Thanks for any input!

 

[kalil]

I don't think the problem is the TPK, I think the problem is "giving them hint" and resurrecting them with some larger than life NPC. The last problem will be further aggravated when they found out that you were just pulling their leg. If the player characters die: Just. Let. Them. Die. It is not that hard, I promise

How I would handle this? Two options:

1) They all die and roll up new characters. The new characters get to avenge the deaths of the former heroes, and possibly fight grotesque reanimated versions of their old characters.
2) They all die and are resurrected 6 months in a nearby temple. The Dragon has obliterated the surrounding countryside and has now set up his lair in the old castle overlooking the valley. However, the clerics have learned of a secret burial mound that contains an ancient artifact that protects against the powers f the elder brain. Now they just need some adventurers to help them retrieve it and the exact revenge on the tyrannical dragon.

 

[kalil]

One question: What level was your party? Just looking at the Elder Brain + Adult Blue Dragon(?) encounter I can't really figure out how the blue one-shotted a ranger that was even close to a relevant level for this encounter.

 

[Herobizkit]

I'd be guessing, but giving them a free resurrection (even one with hidden strings) kind of hints at you (the DM) screwing up and trying to cover for it. Now, the glory of the patrty dying together in a glorious TPK has been cheapened by the free res and you're still kind of jerkin' them around on top of it.

Either the PC's suspect shenanigans and that's why they're grumbling, or they don't suspect shenanigans and are just annoyed that they lost but still won.

Regardless, all you can do is move on and hope they lose fair and square next time. :3

 

[Uchawi]

It is hard to judge in a short window any type of player frustration. It usually starts as a seed and grows. So have you been hard on the party overall in regards to monster challenges? Has the ranger fallen multiple times where others seem to survive the ordeal? Overall, it is never a good feeling getting dropped early in a battle. It is anticlimactic when considering a heroes roll in a story. In that sense, I agree it might be best just to move on with a new set of characters and let that chapter end.

 

[GMMichael]

I second Kalil's question on the one-shot. In D&D at least, if the PCs are high enough level to face opponents with insta-kill moves, they should also be high enough level to have insta-revive moves.

Your ranger was grumbling because s/he didn't have fun. If this person sat out the entire fight - and it was a long fight - you could have provided an NPC for the player to run. Or put him or her in charge of rolling damage dice against the other PCs - giving the illusion that the player had the power to end the fight more quickly.

You should also make sure everyone understands the stakes involved, explicitly or implicitly. The former just means telling your players, "hey! It's a dangerous world. You might want to have a cohort or replacement PC rolled up." I prefer the latter, and you could use an amateur or veteran NPC to convey your message:

Amateur: the hireling who carries extra character gear drops everything he's carrying, amongst other things, and sprints away screaming when he sees A BLUE DRAGON CONTROLLED BY AN ELDER BRAIN!

Veteran: -overheard at the tavern later- "Abbinoarmall. Yeah. The brain-thing. Yes, over in the ruins. I heard some fools brought in some really valuable stuff, without protecting their arses. No magic-prep, no amulets, blessings...nothing. Now all that gear is probably in the dragon's hoard. Makes you want to take a look, doesn't it?"

 

[pming]

Hiya!

Well, if I was a player, I'd feel "cheated" by not being dead. If my character was involved in that heroic, yet doomed, attempt...I made the choice to do it. Now, you (the DM) are making my choice irrelevant. It's like deciding to participate in a pool tournament and winning...only to find out that the tournament was rigged so that you couldn't loose.

So I'd guess that your players may be feeling the same.

My suggestion: I'd specifically tell the players that their characters know that Paladine isn't the one "letting them go back" (re: whomever is trying to raise/resurrect them, it isn't Paladine). I'm assuming that the Elder Brain has never been dead before, and so doesn't know exactly how this all life/death thing works. Generally speaking, the soul needs to acquiesce to being raised (at least that's how I've always ran it...otherwise bad guys could always kill the heroes, then raise them to torture for info again, and again, and again, and again...I'm pretty sure this would not make the God/dess of Death happy!). So...when the soul is recalled, the soul knows who, what and when they are being recalled. That soul can either say "Yeah, sure, I'll give it another go!", or "No flippin way am I going back to that craptastic life!". So, basically, they can go back or not...but they know who's pulling the strings. This gives them a chance (as players) to "screw over" the Elder Brain...who would think the PC's are under his "ruse/control/whatever"...allowing the PC's to really stick it to him from the 'inside'. That might make the "you didn't have a choice" thing more palatable.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Hand of Evil]

1) Players do not mind dying but it has to be a noble death, them dying outright makes them watchers in the game, they want to have a noble death and battle for it.

2) Players may not mind a death in the party but a TPK, no matter what they say, will bug them.

3) When a TPK happens say this to the players: Well, now that you know what happened to the last adventurers I hired, do you still want the job... Do not let them know they have been resurrected, let them wonder what just happened.

 

[Desh-Rae-Halra]

I am sympathetic to your ranger. Getting killed the first round of combat sucks,especially in 5E meaning that single attack reduced him to his negative hit point maximum in one shot.
I play in a group like this, where the DM often has put the party up against creatures CR +4 or +5, and then he acts surprised when characters die and people are like "well, that sucked". At some point, we usually just stop the campaign because it isnt worth it.

 

[Michael Metzger]

I am not all that familiar with this game since I have not played regular games in many years. But there is a rule to DMing that should always stand. If the characters die, let them die with honor. Some one else suggested that the party have sidekicks or NPC's just in cases this happens. Some times that will work and some time not. If the enemy is a strong enemy, the players are going to be much happier knowing their characters fought well and died, then died and got scammed into resurrection. I am not sure they would want to continue playing those characters once they figure this out.