Keith Baker on Eberron's Theme

[Glyfair]

In a thread on the WotC boards, I made a reference to a comment Wolfgang Baur made on his blog that spiraled beyond my intent (I supposed I should have expected that, but I didn't).

However, something good came out of it as Keith posted a series of comments on Wolfgang's blog and it ended up as a limited (as in few interchanges) but deep conversation.

You can see the interchange here. Search for "gloomforge" for the conversation.

On bit was Keith's take on the pulp-noir flavor of Eberron, reproduced below. There is a lot more with Keith commenting on the scale issue in Eberron, the Church of the Silver Flame inconsistencies, the clash between a semi-industrial culture and a feudal society, etc.

If you ever have someone ask you to give them an idea of the feel of Eberron, and expect that they want an indepth idea, this might be a good thing to point towards.

**Eberron's pretensions to noir aren't cutting it for me. Halflings on dinosaurs, magic trains, and the evil cardinals of the Silver Flame all add up to "slightly campy pulp" to me, not noir.**

That's because they ARE slightly campy pulp, not noir. The thing to understand is that when I describe Eberron as "pulp-noir", that's not a single thing - it's a spectrum. Eberron is "Lord of the Rings meets Raiders of the Lost Ark and The Maltese Falcon"... but not necessarily AT THE SAME TIME. I wanted a setting that could play in both directions and which COULD bring them together - but which could also allow DMs to play to the extremes.

So lost cities of Xen'drik, battles atop a moving lightning rail, tribes of raptor-riding Talenta barbarians, undead soldiers of the Emerald Claw seeking to activate the Necrotic Resonator - these things are pure pulp. There's no pretension that they are noir in any way; this is Raiders of the Lost Ark with swords and sorcery, with no trace of Sam Spade or Gutman.

On the other end of the spectrum, we have the slums of Sharn. The Machiavellian intrigues of Zilargo. The lingering resentments between the Five Nations, overshadowed by the lurking fear that the Mourning will happen again - the quiet belief that this may be the last generation, that the world could end at any moment, coupled with the assurance that if it doesn't, the war WILL begin anew. The schemes of the Dragonmarked Houses, both the short-term quest for wealth and the long, slow unraveling of the monarchies. THIS is where the noir comes into Eberron. The old soldier who hunts warforged in the sewers of Sharn, seeking vengeance for his own slaughtered family and taking out his sorrows on these creatures who themselves have been abandoned by society. The cold war between the Five Nations balanced against the ancient hidden conflict between dragon and demon, a war that has continued while lesser civilizations have risen and fallen.

Then there are subjects that walk the line in between. The Dreaming Dark are a force most suited to subtle intrigues and the corruption of allies, but you can certainly work in a seen of over-the-top psi-fu action with an quori nightmare if that's what you want. The Lord of Blades can play the role of pulp villain, but he can also serve as a symbol of these discarded soldiers - weapons made for war and now lost and unwanted in a world that wishes to forget the conflict.

It's a mistake to look for noir in every atom of Eberron. It's not SUPPOSED to be there. The DM who loves pulp action and hates the darkness of noir can find exactly what he wants in Eberron - provided he picks the right locations and villains to use in his game. The same is true of the DM who likes noir and hates the over-the-top pulp. It's a spectrum - not a single flavor. There may be halflings riding dinosaurs... in the Talenta Plains. But if you hate them, there's no reason your players ever need to see a clawfoot.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Interesting post. I think there's a lot more pulp than noir in Eberron.

 

[Imaro]

Interesting post. I think there's a lot more pulp than noir in Eberron.

Yeah, I agree. It's one of the things that kind of made me give up on Eberron. I think that while Keith may see the noir, IMHO the sourcebooks from WotC(with the possible exception of Sharn) are firmly rooted in the pulp end of the spectrum and pay very little homage to "true" noir sensibilities.

 

[Khairn]

As a game setting, I've always seen Eberron as a toolkit for my game rather than a firm setting that supports / encourages a specific style of play. And after reading the post above (and the thread) it looks like that's what Keith was trying to create. Eberron is a really rich setting (IMHO) and even though a few of the books are hit & miss, I've enjoyed running it and had no problem recommending it to others.

 

[bento]

I dunno - Sharn is pure noir to me, both the city and the book.

 

[Frostmarrow]

It's reasonable that pulp is more popular than noir and as such gets more treatment. My Eberron campaign is pulp but I got to say that Keith's ideas of what makes Eberron noir has made me wanting to add some of that. It's an intriguing point of view. Thanks for relaying.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I think a noir sourcebook for Eberron -- partly on HOW to run a noir game, partly on what locations and organizations cater to the feel -- would be an excellent play by WotC.

 

[Savage Wombat]

I don't think you'd even need a whole sourcebook - you could probably do that with a well-written article.

If only there were a WotC-supported, fan-contributed magazine of some sort to publish one in.

 

[Wik]

I don't think you'd even need a whole sourcebook - you could probably do that with a well-written article.

If only there were a WotC-supported, fan-contributed magazine of some sort to publish one in.

Yeah, I've been thinking that myself, as of late...

 

[FrostedMini1337]

I <3 keith baker for tirelessly explaining his vision.