D&D 5E Killing a Teammate

[Rhogar_Rarr]

The exact same argument could be made if the healer were reduced to 0 hp by a crit in the first encounter of the day but succeeded on three death saves.
The character is stable but cant do anything and is just a body until they get more powerful magic (i.e. any healing magic). Should the other players be permitted to mercy kill a character in that situation?

Respectfully, I must say that I do not think your example fits the scenario very well. Having a character that is basically out for 8-10 sessions, or even 1 session, is a lot different than having a character who is out for 1d4 hours. They don't even need extra, higher level resources. They do not need any healing magic or a special spring or a potion to revive the character. They just need to wait for them wake up with 1 HP. They are very different scenarios.

 

[Lanliss]

The exact same argument could be made if the healer were reduced to 0 hp by a crit in the first encounter of the day but succeeded on three death saves.
The character is stable but cant do anything and is just a body until they get more powerful magic (i.e. any healing magic). Should the other players be permitted to mercy kill a character in that situation?

The character is still alive. It still has its soul. It can be brought back and restored, albeit some time down the way. It's not like a dead body where the person is dead and no longer part of the natural order. The character can't take actions or move, but they might still breathe and absolutely feel pain, and are even capable of rudimentary speech (albeit falteringly).

To players it's easy to say "just kill the character and make a new one. Release and reroll." To the characters things are different as they do have to murder their friend. The trick here is not to punish the players for their actions which make sense in the metagame, but you shouldn't let the characters off easy for such an act.

I personally do not jump to the conclusion of them meta gaming. The healer example you give is somewhat plausible, but they could always try a healing attempt with nearby plants, even if they are not proficient in medicine. In the OP situation, it is a much more difficult question, as I said above, because they may not have the knowledge the OP stated. Yes, the OP knows that they have to wait months until they can repair the broken PC, but maybe the PC's only know that they are stranded in the underdark, with a liability on their hands. Maybe not immediately, but eventually, it may lead to a question between the needs of the one, or the needs of the many. Is choosing to save many lives, instead of one, really that evil?

People are also assuming the players immediately jumped on the murderhobo train. Maybe they did try other alternatives, but could not do anything with their limited experience and resources. I just wish we had more info on the situation.

 

[jgsugden]

When there isn't a black and white answer, let the uncertainty exist.

In situations like this, where the real world might have differing views, I give those differing views to different teachings of different Gods. One God might deem it unjust not to put the poor soul ofut of their misery. Another might consider it the most evil of acts to take the life of the helpless. Give these perspectives to the PCs (or even better, ask them how their think their Deity's teachings might account for the situation and use their suggestions) and let it be role played.

In the end: This is a game. It isn't the best place to hash out things people argue about in real life. Tell players that their characters might adopt views that differ (or are identical) to their real world views and allow them to deal with it *in character*. Keep the conversation *in character*. And, if it becomes too harsh of a situation and causes actual conflict between players (not just characters, but players) don't let it ruin the game: Give them an easy out (a cleric has heard of their plight oand offers a solution in exchange for a short quest to be completed after the restoriation is performed).

 

[Jester David]

Respectfully, I must say that I do not think your example fits the scenario very well. Having a character that is basically out for 8-10 sessions, or even 1 session, is a lot different than having a character who is out for 1d4 hours. They don't even need extra, higher level resources. They do not need any healing magic or a special spring or a potion to revive the character. They just need to wait for them wake up with 1 HP. They are very different scenarios.

But if you follow the expected model of 4-8 encounters per day, that's still a lot of adventuring. Based on the pace of the game, that could still be one or two sessions. Sometimes the party can rest, sometimes they can't.

Yes, it's a stretch. An exaggeration. But they're not completely different situations from the perspective of someone in the world.
In both cases, you can bring the person back given enough time. You can save your friend.
The difference is one of scale. If it's okay to murderer your friend to stop them from being an inconvenience for a couple months, the why not do the same over a couple weeks? Or why not a couple days?

I personally do not jump to the conclusion of them meta gaming. The healer example you give is somewhat plausible, but they could always try a healing attempt with nearby plants, even if they are not proficient in medicine. In the OP situation, it is a much more difficult question, as I said above, because they may not have the knowledge the OP stated. Yes, the OP knows that they have to wait months until they can repair the broken PC, but maybe the PC's only know that they are stranded in the underdark, with a liability on their hands. Maybe not immediately, but eventually, it may lead to a question between the needs of the one, or the needs of the many. Is choosing to save many lives, instead of one, really that evil?

It might be hard and they might have to make the sacrifice, but shouldn't they at least try?
And that sounds like a good story. Of struggling but failing to save a companion. Or choosing one companion over another. Or choosing to fail in a mission to save a friend. That's a story and memorable element of a game and far, far more interesting than just murder.

Is it evil? Kinda. Evil can be just as simple as putting your needs above someone else's. It's not that they're unwilling to sacrifice themselves for their catatonic friend, but that they're not even willing to try to save them. Anyone can be good and noble when it's easy. That doesn't count. It's when you make the right decisions when things are hard that sets your alignment and shows what kind of person you are.

People are also assuming the players immediately jumped on the murderhobo train. Maybe they did try other alternatives, but could not do anything with their limited experience and resources. I just wish we had more info on the situation.

We weren't given that information. We have to work with what we were told, and what the OP presented was the party immediately moving to murderhobo the situation.

 

[Eltab]

If the current character is in an UNPLAYABLE condition (which seems to be the case)...
- Does the player want to create a 'temp character' until the original can be brought to a source of aid?
- Does the player want to find a way to heal the current character?
- Are you willing to turn the existing character into an 'NPC ghost' - somebody who just tags along as they travel and ducks when there is a fight?
- Does anybody want to play out this condition for as long as it takes to get to aid?
- Are you (the DM) going to make 'find aid' take a long time and be a burden to the group? How long? How great?

If it was my call, I would first ask the player what options he sees to proceed, and some sort of order of what he would prefer.
I would 'ghost' the PC, and introduce a new character for the player. I would plant a rumor (now that it's a problem) of where the group can get help or sanctuary. I would set this up as a side-quest. And I would take a week thinking about some sort of climactic encounter where the ex-PC's mindless status becomes important to overcoming the challenge (as a pseudo-zombie he can ignore mind flayer telepathy, say); place this a short way away from the sanctuary. The healing would happen 'off-screen', and the group would eventually be told their old friend would like to see them again.

 

[Eltab]

P.S. Has anybody had to deal with a person who has dementia/ Alzheimers IRL? That might be a workable equivalent to explore the question, "What do we do now?"

 

[hejtmane]

But if you follow the expected model of 4-8 encounters per day, that's still a lot of adventuring. Based on the pace of the game, that could still be one or two sessions. Sometimes the party can rest, sometimes they can't.

Yes, it's a stretch. An exaggeration. But they're not completely different situations from the perspective of someone in the world.
In both cases, you can bring the person back given enough time. You can save your friend.
The difference is one of scale. If it's okay to murderer your friend to stop them from being an inconvenience for a couple months, the why not do the same over a couple weeks? Or why not a couple days?


It might be hard and they might have to make the sacrifice, but shouldn't they at least try?
And that sounds like a good story. Of struggling but failing to save a companion. Or choosing one companion over another. Or choosing to fail in a mission to save a friend. That's a story and memorable element of a game and far, far more interesting than just murder.

Is it evil? Kinda. Evil can be just as simple as putting your needs above someone else's. It's not that they're unwilling to sacrifice themselves for their catatonic friend, but that they're not even willing to try to save them. Anyone can be good and noble when it's easy. That doesn't count. It's when you make the right decisions when things are hard that sets your alignment and shows what kind of person you are.


We weren't given that information. We have to work with what we were told, and what the OP presented was the party immediately moving to murderhobo the situation.

The 4-8 encounters will not get you to level 9 that fast early levels come fast but the XP requirements grows exponentially between levels. We know the characters are at level three rough estimate they are sitting at about 900-1000 xp to get to level 9 they need 48,000 xp yea not going to happen in 1-2 sessions from at their current level unless the DM is throwing out free xp (cough cough the dreaded meta gaming) . If I had to wait for other players to get from level 3 to 9 while other people played and I did nothing but sit around and my character gets nothing yea I tell the DM to go suck donkey balls.

 

[hejtmane]

P.S. Has anybody had to deal with a person who has dementia/ Alzheimers IRL? That might be a workable equivalent to explore the question, "What do we do now?"

Had family and friends that have they take constant care and most end up in homes since they can not function on their own

 

[GameOgre]

Hey I just got this idea that might work. Why not try and be a DM? Seriously dude, why is this something you bring to the boards to ask about?

Should I have one player not play for 10 sessions? Really? If you have to come here and ask that please, save that player and no don't let him, he will thank you later!

Come on.....I couldn't make this stuff up!

Why is he even alive with 0 Int? Just have his brain shut down and end of story! He is dead! I'm pretty sure that's a rule somewhere(if not it should be) but come on either way...he is dead or wakes up with a headache get on with the fun!

Let me ask you think, if the party got magically frozen in time for years would you just shut down your game and wait it out?

Come on people!

 

[Ilbranteloth]

P.S. Has anybody had to deal with a person who has dementia/ Alzheimers IRL? That might be a workable equivalent to explore the question, "What do we do now?"

It could be similar. It's basically totally disabled, which my daughter is, actually. She's tube fed, so that's not an option for them. But she has to be changed regularly, fed, can't walk, pretty similar to the game description of stunned. She's certainly aware, can communicate (although doesn't speak words), she can move her wheelchair on her own, there just isn't really far to go in our house.

So if that's the baseline we set, then it certainly would be evil to even consider a mercy killing. But if they are basically in a vegetative state, with no hope for recovery (and hoping to eventually get to 9th level doesn't really count), and we don't know which direction he'd like to go to recover ability damage. So I can see why the question comes up.

But I still think that friend or not, a paladin and a cleric would put the focus on helping if that is in fact feasible.

Regardless of all that, I would not take a player effectively out of the game for any extended period. Provide some sort of healing, they should have learned that they need to know when to run, and move on. It doesn't have to be complete healing, leave her with a temporarily lessened intelligence and one or more levels of exhaustion.

If you don't want to provide the healing, then go ahead and let her die of natural causes and bring in a new character.

It really shouldn't be this complicated - you've invited them to play in your game, let them play.

Ilbranteloth