Killing wizards! (Split from: I hate game balance!)

[jdrakeh]

A very interesting observation came up in the "I hate game balance!" thread concerning magic using characters in older editions of D&D. Basically, at high levels, such characters become impossible, godlike, beings. And me, I'm thinking that having a bunch of impossible, godlike, beings, running around the world and capable of bending reality to their will is not in the public interest. Sure, such godlings may be helfpful -- but they may also just as easily decimate armies or kingdoms for fun.

Has anybody ever run a campaign where world governments have sought out people with magic ability to murder them before they become a threat? A D&D campaign, mind you,. There are otyhert games in other genres (e.g., Dark Heresy) that cover much of this same ground. This sounds like a great deal of fun (well, okay, maybe not for those people who dig magic-users), as well as a sensible (if brutal) reaction to the observation that magc users of high level are essentially one-man armies.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Sounds a bit like Team Achilles, a comic about a non-superpowered paramilitary group who kill superheroes.

Could work well in 4e, all the PCs would have the martial power source.

 

[Tewligan]

Sounds a bit like Team Achilles, a comic about a non-superpowered paramilitary group who kill superheroes.

Could work well in 4e, all the PCs would have the martial power source.

Isn't 4e the WORST rules set for such a setting? Since the characters are all about the same degree of power at the same levels, a 15th level wizard is no more of a threat than a 15th level fighter. But a 15th magic-user - now THERE'S a threat worth hunting down!

 

[jdrakeh]

Isn't 4e the WORST rules set for such a setting? Since the characters are all about the same degree of power at the same levels, a 15th level wizard is no more of a threat than a 15th level fighter. But a 15th magic-user - now THERE'S a threat worth hunting down!

You could play it in D&D 4e, but I think that the justification for killing wizards based on ascension to godlike levels of power (i.e., levels of power not easily checked by other denizens of the world) would be absent and, thus, such a campaign would be missing the point. The idea is, after all, specifically based on the massive power divide between high level wizards and. . . erm. . . everybody else in previous editions of D&D.

 

[Bagpuss]

I saw the thread title and thought, "You might not like 4th Ed but don't you think that's going a little far?"

 

[jdrakeh]

I saw the thread title and thought, "You might not like 4th Ed but don't you think that's going a little far?"

LOL

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

Has anybody ever run a campaign where world governments have sought out people with magic ability to murder them before they become a threat? A D&D campaign, mind you,...

Nope, but it sounds like a kinda cool idea. (And the "world government preemptive strike on threats" premise seems like a very plausible campaign premise.)

 

[BendBars/LiftGates]

Interesting idea. You might do better waiting until there are some viable non-arcane controllers, so you can have a party with all its character roles covered. Or, do the 4th Edition thing and come up with a way that the party Wizard isn't really a Wizard. (The team's squad leader killed an archmage and claimed his wand and is now able to summon the wizard's power... Or, the Order has entrapped a wizard's soul in this crystal sphere, and you can tap the mage's power to cast spells)

It's true that, in 4th Edition, a high-level Wizard isn't really orders of magnitude more dangerous than a fighter. But that's only true of the Wizard class as it's written, as designed for PC use in a balanced party, in accordance with the assumption that they shouldn't be tougher. If no PC is going to be a Wizard, there's no reason not to say that, in your campaign world, all wizards aren't level 22 solo controllers who can rain fire down from the skies for miles around. The whole campaign can be based around bringing down their extradimensional magocracy, starting with their lackeys and minions and eventually taking the fight to the bearded jerks themselves.


What I think would be more interesting is to turn the old stereotype of "popular fear of magic powers has turned into a witch-hunt for wizards!" around. How about popular hatred for the gods' indifference and apparent infliction of suffering on the world turns into a witch-hunt for clerics? You can live in a world where Bane has conquered the other gods and you've got to fight his now-fully dominant clergy in order to liberate all of existence. I was inspired last night by reading through The Book of Hallowed Might 2 (by Monte Cook and Mike Mearls, no less), which has a chapter (totally not written as a transparent political allegory, wink wink) about a kingdom where a charismatic evil god took over the government and called for a purge of all other religions. I have no idea why D&D doesn't utilize this take on the "in this kingdom, X is against the law" storyline, but I have my theories...

 

[Psion]

Has anybody ever run a campaign where world governments have sought out people with magic ability to murder them before they become a threat?

One of the prevailing assumptions in my D&D metasetting at large is no government persists for long without magic under its control. The way this is expressed varies widely. There are magocracies, there are monarchies which maintain magic academies and limit magical knowledge outside the nobility, and so forth.

 

[Psion]

Isn't 4e the WORST rules set for such a setting? Since the characters are all about the same degree of power at the same levels, a 15th level wizard is no more of a threat than a 15th level fighter. But a 15th magic-user - now THERE'S a threat worth hunting down!

You are striking very close to why 4e is not a suitable vehicle for my campaign.