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Kingdoms of Kalamar - fill me in please

Let me explain a few things Kalamar doesn't have.

At its essence, Kalamar doesn't necessarily feel like a fantastic world. Just reading through the campaign book, you won't find rivers of blood, cursed landscapes, or deserts that are the result of a terrible wizard's duel in the past. None of the countries are populated mainly by magical or especially fanciful races, none of the aristocrats are silver dragons in disguise, there are no floating castles, and not a single city is protected by ancient magics.

You're free to put all this stuff in, of course, but the fantasy level isn't terribly high by default.

There is, granted, a city that has been taken over by a vampire. But that's really the exception here.

This might be part of the blank-slate nature of the world - a design philosophy that it's easier for DMs to add things that suit their style than it is to take things away that don't.
 

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MerakSpielman said:
Let me explain a few things Kalamar doesn't have.

At its essence, Kalamar doesn't necessarily feel like a fantastic world. Just reading through the campaign book, you won't find rivers of blood, cursed landscapes, or deserts that are the result of a terrible wizard's duel in the past. None of the countries are populated mainly by magical or especially fanciful races, none of the aristocrats are silver dragons in disguise, there are no floating castles, and not a single city is protected by ancient magics.

You're free to put all this stuff in, of course, but the fantasy level isn't terribly high by default.

There is, granted, a city that has been taken over by a vampire. But that's really the exception here.

This might be part of the blank-slate nature of the world - a design philosophy that it's easier for DMs to add things that suit their style than it is to take things away that don't.

Yes, I believe that is part of the blank slate nature. Not to bash the Realms, as I've had many a good adventure there, but Kalamar's approach is that it is easier to add the fantastical things in that it is to take them out. I mean, if the threat gets serious enough to Waterdeep, won't Force Grey & Khelben be called into action? (if they're still around... are they?) And, if the DM takes out Force Grey & Khelben, you've just knocked out a major protector of Waterdeep... and a major group of high level NPCs.

In Kalamar, the DM can add in his or her own version of Force Grey to be the protectors of Bet Kalamar or Dalen or wherever.
 

Mark Plemmons said:
Kinda harsh, Nightfall. :)

No, we don't plan on advancing the timeline (coming out with updates that make major changes to the setting and thus affect your group's campaign).

That certainly doesn't mean nothing happens.

Well maybe not but some times its fun to see what designers can come up with.

Anyway I didn't mean to be overtly harsh Mark. You guys at Kenzer do good work. Just not my thing. In any event I respect what you at Kenzer do and I'm glad to say I agree to disagree on what is good about Kalamar as a campaign setting. But what is TRULY good at least is the maps. So points there at least.

Also regarding this idea that because new suppliments are bad, I don't buy that. Personally I've found the new suppliments (ranging from changes in Dragonlance to even the FR stuff), more than decent. Also just because something changes there doesn't ALWAYS means it's bad. Change is good. (And this is coming from a guy that barely changes his socks! So please believe me)

In any case, Kalamar is fine for some. For me, if you want a rough and ready low level/gritty setting, go with the Black Company or Midnight.
 
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MerakSpielman said:
Let me explain a few things Kalamar doesn't have.

SNIP

This might be part of the blank-slate nature of the world - a design philosophy that it's easier for DMs to add things that suit their style than it is to take things away that don't.

A good point. My major complaint with KOK is that its a bit hinky on the magic department. It claims to be low magic and than sticks with core rules -- not a good combo in my book. I also find it a bit dull if well writte

KOK modules (err adventures) OTOH are very good. I used to have Deathright and it was awesome -- well written, interesting and it had nice handouts, a little crunch and a handy tables -- I really liked that -- it felt like smart old school to me
 

Someone mentioned 3e Dragonlance.

If you want to do 3e Dragonlance, buy the CS, War of the Lance, get the trailmap on ebay, and just use the core rules.

If you play C&C, all you need is the original Dragonlance Book, War of the Lance and the trailmap.

Everything after the war of the lance is silly IMO.

IMC the cataclysm happened 14 years ago and it will be quite some time before things get back to normal. Till then it is a very Swords and Sorcery sort of setting as opposed to a High Fantasy setting.

Kalamar is great cause all you need are two books, the CS and the Atlas. The other stuff helps, but aside from the CIty map folio, there is not much else.

Still I am a big Wilderlands/FR guy.

Aaron.
 

Brennin Magalus said:
Kenzer did not "buy" the license (unless the threat of litigation is a form of payment).

Your statement is based on a blatantly false rumor that was going around.

There was no "threat of litigation". K&C did in fact pay money for a license.

Please stop making false accusations and spreading rumors.
 

MerakSpielman said:
Let me explain a few things Kalamar doesn't have.

At its essence, Kalamar doesn't necessarily feel like a fantastic world. Just reading through the campaign book, you won't find rivers of blood, cursed landscapes, or deserts that are the result of a terrible wizard's duel in the past. None of the countries are populated mainly by magical or especially fanciful races, none of the aristocrats are silver dragons in disguise, there are no floating castles, and not a single city is protected by ancient magics.

You're free to put all this stuff in, of course, but the fantasy level isn't terribly high by default.

There is, granted, a city that has been taken over by a vampire. But that's really the exception here.

This might be part of the blank-slate nature of the world - a design philosophy that it's easier for DMs to add things that suit their style than it is to take things away that don't.

I don't want to disagree with Merak ( he's a good guy :) ), but I'd like to clarify that a little.

Yes, the fantasy level in the KoK setting isn't extremely high - there are no magical street lamps on every corner, farmers plowing their fields with magic, magic item shops in every town, and so on. Instead, the KoK setting focuses a little more on adventure - it's harder not to find adventure than it is to find it. Scheming nobles, haughty ambassadors, miserable paupers, and arrogant soldiers all have desires and plans. Most of these dreams involve wealth and power, and all of them have someone who wishes to stop them. Life in the setting is fast, hard, and often over too soon, but it can't be called dull.

However, that doesn't mean the KoK setting focuses ONLY on the interplay between persons and nations, and is lacking magic. It's just not saturated with it. The magic is more natural, flowing within the history and politics of the setting rather than towering over it.

Here are a few examples of some of my personal favorite bits of magic in the KoK setting (in no particular order):

Brandobian History: The Brandobians came to see themselves as superior to the demihumans and all other "lesser" races. They even credited themselves with teaching the elves magic and the halflings how to grow carrots. Soon only pureblooded Brandobians held offices of power. The Brandobians persecuted their demihuman neighbors and all foreigners, even non-Brandobian humans.
When the elves had enough of the humans' arrogance, they withdrew into Lendelwood, content to wait for the short-lived humans to die off. The Brandobians were not content with driving the elves into the forest. In an effort to force all elves from the area, they mounted an attack on the Lendelwood. The elves ambushed the humans and easily defeated them in the first major clash.
Humiliated, the bitter Brandobian King threw insults at the elven ruler. The elven king responded with laughter and a magical blessing for fruitful loins. Less than a year later, the queen gave birth to triplet boys.
As the princes matured, each felt that he was the rightful heir to the throne. When the king died, all three brothers claimed the crown. The country fell into chaos as the brothers vied for control. The nature of the elven curse finally became apparent; Brandobia tumbled into a bitter civil war. After three years of bloodshed, the brothers ultimately agreed to divide the country into thirds. The strongest brother, Clond Endremin, who had the largest following of commoners, claimed what is now Eldor. The middle son, Avbron Endremin, ruled Mendarn. The weakest brother, Veseln Endremin, held sway over what is now Cosdol. The Lendelwood remained under elven influence, as none of the brothers was foolish enough to challenge the elves for control of the forest.

The Giant's Fall: Only a quarter of a mile northeast of Shyta-Thybaj, a deep trench stands open, providing a danger to those who travel at night. The Giant's Fall opened up during an earthquake in 344 F.C. (488 I.R.). The gorge is about 600 yards long and about 110 feet deep at its center. Directly in the center of the trench lies the plainly visible skeleton of a giant. The giant was a cloud giant and any valuables have been taken long ago, except for the giant's knowledge. A speak with dead spell that asks about his treasure might reveal the location of his home in the Vrykarrs. This lair contains numerous death traps and piles of gold. His real treasure (and a former point of pride for the evil giant) is the holy sword known as the Kargi Mourn, thought to be lost when its former owner sank into the Reanaaria Bay on a leaky cog surrounded by pirates.

The Khydoban Desert: What makes the city-state of Dynaj such a frighteningly unique place is the abundance of undead found in the Khydoban Desert, which is aptly nick-named the Dead Lands. This unusual distinction makes the city a haven for unsavory individuals seeking to interact or do business with Dynaj's unholy neighbors. Desperate generals occasionally visit Dynaj, seeking to hire undead mercenaries.
It is rumored that somewhere in the Dead Lands lies an entire country populated with undead and ruled by a lich lord. Although these rumors are unsubstantiated, certain merchants head east from Dynaj with full cargoes and return with empty wagons and pockets lined with gold.
( Obviously I like this one, since I'm in the process of writing the Sands of the Khydoban campaign option. :) )

Giilia (as Merak mentioned): Giilia answers to the absolute rule of its ruler for the last 200 years, an elven vampire known only as Esmaran. Esmaran does not intend to concede power. The city's next ruler will have to wrest power from her by force. For keeping the peace (such as it is) and protecting from humanoid or monster attack, Esmaran relies on three dozen ghouls and their six ghast leaders. Once a month, Esmaran makes a public ritual out of slaying a person (preferably a stranger), draining his body of blood and feeding him to the ghasts.
Esmaran's sole concession to benign rule is that she allows free worship by her subjects. The homely temples house ardent worshipers of the Halls of the Valiant, the Courts of Justice, the Assembly of Light, and the House of Solace. These priests minister with a mixture of hope and fear; hope for improvement and fear that if they come too close to achieving success that Esmaran will have them eaten by ghouls.
Considered by his peers to be the most likely candidate for ghoul food is Protector Navadaal of the Halls of the Valiant. Since his advancement within the faith depends on battling evil, he must sooner or later come to odds directly with Esmaran. He has also been secretly sending out calls for paladins to come to his city, but Esmaran knows about these calls and has already captured and killed most of these errant heroes as soon as they approached her demense.
Giilia has a literal underworld. The untiring ghouls have dug miles of tunnels through the earth. Deep underground lie monstrous ghasts at the heart of the labyrinth, constantly hungry and immensely powerful. The largest of these beasts, Uggurath, is so mighty that his stench allows no saving throw and his touch can turn victims stone dead. Esmaran uses his weakest servants as henchmen in return for the occasional life captured for Uggurath's play. The ghast king's greatest pleasure is to hold a wriggling victim while Esmaran casts fear and scare spells on it, as if the very real terror is not horrible enough.
Plus, A cave complex just over a mile west of the city holds one of the largest colonies of bats on Tellene. Sixteen million bats live in a huge underground cavern system that has yet to be fully explored by anyone, even the dwarves. Giilian myth says that mind flayers live in the deepest part of the complex, but the people of Giilia do not like to spread the rumor. They have enough monsters of their own without making up stories about others.

Ghosts of Zoa: The spirits of six dwarves who were massacred by city police in a riot two years ago haunt the city's streets at night. These ungrateful undead do not gather together, but their immaterial forms sometimes appear before late-night pedestrians as beaten and bloody workmen. They follow people harmlessly; however, if the living threaten violence, the spirits destroy them. If a person goes through the motions of healing a spirit's wounds, on the other hand (casting healing spells, applying bandages that fall to the ground, etc.), the spirit disappears. That spirit will not bother the helpful one again and, additionally, she will find some beneficial treasure before she reaches her door.

The Awhom Forest: The city of Zomo-Wim's strong defensive stance stems from the threats to come out of the Awhom Forest in recent years. As treasure hunters and adventurers bring more artifacts out of the forest, the humanoids and monsters in the forest become bolder and more belligerent. While no one locally believes the goblins or ogres can claim to have created these artifacts, they do fear the humanoids are merely pawns of a greater race, one thought to be long dead. What this race might be, none can guess, for the artifacts show no images of their creators.
 
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GrimJesta said:
Apparently you either love the setting or hate it.

Nah. I'm sort of middle of the road on it.

It's a decent, thoroughly detailed setting that is very D&D fantasy norm, while eschewing some Realms-isms (like ultra-convenient magic and spotlight NPCs). But I think those who think the setting book is a little hard to get into have a case. That said, I think the player's primer is just what KoK needed. It helps break down KoK into bite-sized chunks, and gives player the tools they need to insert their character in the setting.

BlueBlackRed attests a dislike for variants... Kalamar has a few, and I could do without them myself. But I think Kalamar is fairly playable while ignoring things like the new core classes, I think.

I really didn't think much of most of the supplements before Orcs of Tellene. But I must say, books they have released since then have, for the most part, impressed me (though of the ones released since, the ones that are co-branded hackmaster impress me the least). Salt and Sea Dogs is a great seafaring book, for example. And stealth and style guide has me close to changing my mind about KoK variant classes.
 

D M Zwerg said:
Your statement is based on a blatantly false rumor that was going around.

There was no "threat of litigation". K&C did in fact pay money for a license.

Please stop making false accusations and spreading rumors.

Uh-huh. When Sean Reynolds brought this up previously, the only thing Mark Plemmons disputed, as I recall, was that it reached the point of litigation. He did not dispute that there was a settlement. Thus, as far as I am concerned, it is neither a rumor nor a false accusation (although I am sure Kenzer would like people to believe otherwise for the sake of PR).
 

Well all legalities notwithstanding, I've got what I needed to get from the posts on the thread.

Thanks to all who posted.

It sounds like the campaign world has what I've been half-trying to with my own home-brewed world and more. And since my free time diminishes daily it seems, I will probably pick this up when our current campaign(s) start to wind down.
 

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