Kiss of the Vampire = Energy Draining defense ?

[kreynolds]

I was thinking more of the energy attack not the spell...

The attack itself I doubt bolsters undead... otherwise undead would be touching one another boosting themselves !

Exactly. Like I said, I think the Energy Drain spell (and Enervation spell, for that matter) are exceptions, so you would indeed benefit from being popped by either of those spells while you KotV up. Otherwise, you're just immune supernatural energy drain attacks.

Polymorph Other can't affect undead... so the spell would make me immune too ?

Yup. You're treated as undead.

 

[Rashak Mani]

No Charm Person either then !

 

[Camarath]

I see nothing in the Energy Drain (Su) entry that would cause it not to affect an Undead creature that was not immune to Energy Drain. Undead are not subject to Energy Drain but traget of this spell does not gain that trait so IMO it should still be affected by Energy Drain. In case of the spells nothing says that undead do not suffer the other effects of the spell so I think that a creature under the effects Kiss of the Vampire that was not immune to Energy Drain would suffer the negative levels and gain the temporary hit points.

If I was updating this spell to 3.5 I would just have it give the traget the Undead type along with the other benefits.

 

[Sejs]

I see nothing in the Energy Drain (Su) entry that would cause it not to affect an Undead creature that was not immune to Energy Drain. Undead are not subject to Energy Drain but traget of this spell does not gain that trait so IMO it should still be affected by Energy Drain. ...

Spell Description: "You are treated as if you were undead for the purpose of all spells and effects."

Undead Type Description: "Not subject to critical hits, nonleathal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects."

 

[Ferox4]

Undead are not subject to Energy Drain but target of this spell does not gain that trait so IMO it should still be affected by Energy Drain.

then how do you interpret this (in reference to the KotV spell)?

"You are treated as if you were undead for the purpose of all spells and effects."

 

[Camarath]

then how do you interpret this (in reference to the KotV spell)?

I interpret that section as meaning you are treated as if you had the creature type Undead but you do not gain the Undead traits. Thus if a spell targets or affects only undead you can be targeted or affected by it. But you do not gain Immunity to all mind-affecting effects, poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), fatigue and exhaustion effects and you are still subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain.

 

[Ferox4]

So you really don't think that Energy Drain falls under the "effects" portion of the KotV spell description?

To steal kreynolds argument against me earlier - why doesn't it then say "You are treated as if you were undead for the purpose of all spells and spell effects." ?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

 

[Camarath]

So you really don't think that Energy Drain falls under the "effects" portion of the KotV spell description?

Undead can still be hit with an Energy Drain attack they are just immune to it's effects by virtue of thier traits.

It is the Undead traits which make the Undead not subject to Energy Drain and nothing says you gain those traits. So I am saying you are treated as type Undead with out any of the undead traits and since it is the traits which provide the immunity to Energy Drain you do not gain that immunity just as you do not gain immunity to critical hits or nonlethal damage.

To steal kreynolds argument against me earlier - why doesn't it then say "You are treated as if you were undead for the purpose of all spells and spell effects." ?

Because some non-spell abilities may only target or can not target creatures with the undead type or may expressly not affect or only affect creatures with the undead type. Energy Drain does not say that creatures with the undead type can not be affected by it so I think that if a creature was undead but for some reason was not immune to Energy Drain (as I believe a creature under the affects of Kiss of the Vampire is treated as) would still be subject to Energy Drain.

 

[kreynolds]

I do get what Camarath is saying, but I don't agree yet. Also from KotV...

"When using this spell, inflict spells heal you and cure spells hurt you."

You are treated as undead for the purpose of an inflict spell, an inflict spell is a negative energy effect, thus you net a positive result from an inflict spell.

You are treated as undead for the purpose of an energy drain spell, an energy drain spell is a negative energy effect, thus you net a positive result from an energy drain spell.

Incidentally, this part of KotV is identical to Shroud of Undeath on page 117 (which allows arcane casters to heal, and exceedingly well, I might add ).

 

[ruleslawyer]

Errata, guys, errata.

From the Magic of Faerun errata:

p. 103, Kiss of the vampire:
...
1st paragraph after bullet points, 2nd sentence:
Change "You are treated as if you were undead for the purpose of all spells and effects." to "You are treated as if you were
undead for the purpose of all spells and effects that specifically affect undead."

[emphasis added]
Energy drain or the energy drain (Su) ability are NOT "spells and effects specifically affecting undead." They are spells of general applicability. Now, the more interesting question is whether, since inflict spells are "negative energy" effects, and their effect on you is changed by KotV, whether KotV changes your response to "negative energy" effects, including energy drain, in general. I'd say no. The cure/inflict thing and the turning vulnerability are side effects of the spell, and in the case of energy drain, I see no reason for the creation of a non-specified side effect with a substantial game benefit.