Knowledge Checks

[Shadeydm]

The following is a passage from an adventure: After you show the players the illustration, give them an opportunity to solve the puzzle by exploring and asking questions, allow the skill checks from the table below to acquire hints.

Does this mean to you that the DM must call for the knowledge checks listed or that the players must figure out/decide to make the appropriate knowledge checks?

In fact even outside of the context of that passage do you as the DM ask players to make knowledge checks or is the onus on the players to make checks at the approprite times to gain information?

 

[Grymar]

I'd let them make a try on their own...as they have trouble and need hints, I'd tell the guy who has Knowledge (religion) to make a check. If he asks if he can do that before I ask for it, then that's great...it is part of the puzzle.

 

[mvincent]

do you as the DM ask players to make knowledge checks or is the onus on the players to make checks at the approprite times to gain information?

The former (i.e. typically, players do not need to declare that they are using knowledge skills). From the knowledge rules:
"Action
Usually none. In most cases, making a Knowledge check doesn’t take an action—you simply know the answer or you don’t."

 

[nittanytbone]

Usually if the players ask about knowledge checks, I just borrow their character sheet and roll the appropriate checks secretly (so they don't know the results, just like a Search check). Unless they choose to take 10, of course.

I'll roll a fistful of dice so they don't know how many skills are really in play, either.

I do require players to ask about the Knowledge check, though -- I as DM have too many things going on to volunteer things like skill use most of the time. For example, I usually don't ask the rogue if they are searching for secret doors or the cleric if they are making heal checks before bed time -- players need to make such requests.

 

[mvincent]

I usually don't ask the rogue if they are searching for secret doors or the cleric if they are making heal checks before bed time -- players need to make such requests.

That seems reasonable, as both those skills requires actions. However, that method would not seem suitable for skill uses that do not require actions (examples: reactive uses of sense motive, spot, listen, etc.).

If the adventure has specific information available for knowledge checks, the roll would be automatic (i.e. "you simply know the answer or you don’t.").

If no such specific information is available, then I suppose a player could still ask to use knowledge to try to get details about something the author hadn't thought of.

 

[Dross]

The following is a passage from an adventure: After you show the players the illustration, give them an opportunity to solve the puzzle by exploring and asking questions, allow the skill checks from the table below to acquire hints.

Does this mean to you that the DM must call for the knowledge checks listed or that the players must figure out/decide to make the appropriate knowledge checks?

It can be both. I'd fall back on your standard procedure for this.

To me (and how I generally run puzzles) this means: Let players have a look and see if they come up with ideas. if they stall, knowledge checks, if they still stall, mention that they can continue and come back to it.

In fact even outside of the context of that passage do you as the DM ask players to make knowledge checks or is the onus on the players to make checks at the approprite times to gain information?

I'm not a fan of forcing the players to ask for knowledge checks. It can force the players to ALWAYS ask for knowledge rolls, or they can shut down and NEVER ask. Heraldry/nobility is a good point. See the symbol of some knight, know who it is, react appropriately.

Players need to ask for: monsters, item abilities, meta-game knowledge, etc

Players don't need to ask for: heraldry, symbols, IDing something from a description etc

DM call: religious symbols, names, places. Some will be known, some might be known.

I also use knowledge checks as a way of hearding players away from wrongful assumptions that are not supported by the "facts."