Knowledge: How do you use it

[KnowTheToe]

It seems to me the knowledge skill is too specific in it current use. In order to be a knowledgeable noble you would need knowledge nobility, history, Local, geography, military, and who knows how many more. With the current skill point system, it would be difficult to create a PC or NPC who could regularly meet DC 15 knowledge checks in more than one or two areas.

How do you use the skill in your games or how do you think it should be used?

I think the sub groups of the skill should be limited to three or four and cover a much broader application, but maybe I am not looking at the big picture.

 

[Enkhidu]

In order to be a knowledgeable noble, you'd need a wide variety of skills, but very few of the knowledge skills would have a lot of ranks in them. After all, nobles had advisors, translators, heralds, etc for the really difficult questions.

 

[Orias]

My group uses knowledge dependent on how your character would have learned it. You may have a ton-load of ranks in knowledge: religion, but if you only studied in a temple to a specific deity, you are going to have a good deal of misconceptions about other religions of the world. It is dependent on your character. We also use a kind of symmetry with knowledge skills, or that a specific knowledge skill can be used as another knowledge skill for a little less in ranks. For example, if you are playing a cleric of a Necromancy deity, a good portion of your study is going to be around the undead, so you would have a relatively high symmetry with "knowledge: undead", & if you are the noble you are describing, you will have a slight amount of knowledge of things related to nobility, but you will not have as many ranks as you do in "knowledge: nobility/royalty"

 

[Urbannen]

A human aristocrat with an Intelligence of 12 receives 24 skill points at first level and 6 skill points every level thereafter. An aristocrat treats every Knowledge skill as a class skill.

Thus at first level the aristocrat could have max ranks in all five Knowledge areas you listed plus one more, all with a +5 to the check. This first level aristocrat would be able to answer hard questions about a given subject 55% of the time. That's not terrible for a 1st level NPC. Add more Intelligence for more skills and a better Intelligence check. The aristocrat could also take two Skill Focus (Knowledge) feats to achieve a 65% chance to answer a hard question with the given subject (70% with 3.5 +3 Skill Focus).

edit: spelling and math flub

 

[MarauderX]

I arrange certain things in an adventure that call on the specific knowledge skills. For example, there may be an NPC of a certain arcane group that put certain symbols on their clothing that the PCs may recognize as evil (if they made the check) or neutral/good (if they failed). Although they might not need the hint not to trust the guy from start from other information, passing a check like that would tip them off just in case.

Otherwise I don't use them as a player unless there is something that I might ask the DM, like "How many times do the priests of Pelor pray per day?" which would provoke a knowledge (religion) check. It makes you look silly when, as a cleric, you fail the check because you have so few skill points.

 

[KnowTheToe]

OK so an aristocrat who uses all of his skill points for knowledge could become a well educated person, but has no other skills including diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive etc.

What about a fighter who is also a general? All the knowledge skills would be cross class. How many knowledge skills would it take to know how to organize, feed, finance, drill and lead an army into battle? Would warfare and tactics fall under the same knowledge skill? A general may not need to know all of these, but he had better know most of them.

 

[MojoGM]

This is why I always had a problem with fighters not getting a lot of skill points and most skills like this being cross class.

As it stands, it is impossible for a straight-out Fighter to be a King, because he will be lacking most of the skills a King needs.

Wasn't 3.5 supposed to get rid of cross-classes? Or did they?

 

[Shallown]

Actual KTT I would say a 1st aristocrat wouldn't have but like 1-2 points in knowledge but by say4-5th they would have 5 or so or enougfh to take 10 an answer difficult questions. That way they have points for all the other aformentioned skills.


later

 

[Enkhidu]

OK so an aristocrat who uses all of his skill points for knowledge could become a well educated person, but has no other skills including diplomacy, Bluff, Sense Motive etc.

I don't see a problem with this - a noble who's had a lot of book learning probably wouldn't have had as much time for the courtly skills of subterfuge and diplomacy. Less study/practice = less ranks.

What about a fighter who is also a general? All the knowledge skills would be cross class. How many knowledge skills would it take to know how to organize, feed, finance, drill and lead an army into battle? Would warfare and tactics fall under the same knowledge skill? A general may not need to know all of these, but he had better know most of them.

Which is why generals who have a good grasp on running an army are more appropriately fighter/experts.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Wasn't 3.5 supposed to get rid of cross-classes? Or did they?

No, but they did get rid of exclusive skills. There are no skills on the list that you can't at least put ranks in cross-class.

I have been doing a lot of thinking about the Knowledge skills myself, actually. I also think they are far too specific. I am looking for some sort of "The more you know, the more you know..." solution...

My current front-runner: Any knowledge skill with 5 or more ranks gives a +2 synergy to any other knowledge skill. Synergy bonuses stack (I believe)...

The problem with that solution is that it encourages a "broad base pyramid" of skills, where knowing more skills outstrips the utility of having one skill you are very good at.


Wulf