Knowledge Skillls Checks

[Dross]

One thing I believe important to remember that what is "known" may not be "fact" especially for creatures not native to the plane. There could be many reasons for this, e.g. just look at how much "incorrect knowledge" there appears on this forum just by people making mistakes from misreading questions, forgotten a piece of info that changes the situation, house rules believed to be RAW etc. And this happens from people that are trying to help. Just don't overdo it.

Also you need to set some sort of limit that a knowledge check can get you such as the list already provided by someone (although personally I wouldn't use it as written).

As others have also stated, try to not use game mechanics in your descriptions. Be as vague as you can but still accurately describe something's ability :\

Recently in a game I run the group in a keep inhabited by wights. During their encounters most of the party were hit and level drained. Using a knowledge: religion check they were able to obtain 2 bits of info. The info I gave was that wights can steal the essence of a person with some people recovering and others not (although that didn't stop them doing anything in the future), and that if you died from a wight you could become one. That describes level drain in non game-mechanical terms. As for the dying, who would know if someone killed by a wight was level drained (becomes a wight) or had >= -10HP (doesn't become a wight)?

Everyone at the table knew the mechanics of negating a level drain, but with the info they got from the knowledge check no PC knew that anything that increased FORT saves would help, even though they had PCs that could cast Bull's Endurance and the like.

 

[Shin Okada]

As Stalker0 says, monster's HD tend to be much higher than it's CR, especially in higher levels. And PCs need 6 different knowledge skills to cover all types of creatures. Thus, that will become relatively harder to get information as the levels advance.

And, If PCs invests really that much skill points to knowledge skills, that is their choice. Let them enjoy benefits from it. They should have fewer ranks in other skills and there may be times they reglet it.

Also, when a monster is written in a published book, don't expect that your group can enjoy "encounter against unknown monster". Even if PC does not know, the player may know. Sure, some players can enjoy playing according to his PC's (lack of ) knowledge. But anyway, that encounter will not give them much "mysterious" feeling.

If you definitely want to use some mysterious monster, make your own monster and make it "unknown to the world yet". No one prevent you from making a monster which even the wisest sage does not know.

 

[wedgeski]

I'm going to yoink several good pieces of advice from this thread, as using Knowledge checks in this fashion has recently become a significant part of the game for us. I think I'd really like to see a set of codified rules for this that are a bit more helpful than the 'one or more pieces of information' offered in the RAW - perhaps even including a table of DC's and the information they provide directly into the monster's write-up in future editions.

I particularly like the 'make the players ask the questions' approach. I haven't used that before. It takes some of the burden off my shoulders as to what exactly I should be revealing, and allows the players to focus on things that are tactically relevant to their PC's. If they then want to share that information with eachother, they can use standard or full-round actions as normal. Works for me.

 

[wedgeski]

The following are suggestions for the knowledge known on the following DC checks ; we use these well in-game and they seem to work.

This is all irrespective of Hit Dice, or am I missing something?

 

[frankthedm]

Here is what dragon magazine says about knowledges.[example will-o-wisp]

WILL-O'-WISP KNOWLEDGE
The following table shows the results of Knowledge (dungeoneering) checks related to will-o'-wisps.
Knowledge (dungeoneering)
DC
Result
10 Will-o'-wisps are glowing balls of light that lure victims into sinkholes and quicksand.

15 Will-o'-wisps feed off of negative emotions and use electricity attacks.
Tracking will-o'-wisps is difficult due to their ability to fly and turn invisible. Wisps are intelligent and sadistic creatures, yet still might be reasoned with.

25 Will-o'-wisps are immune to all magic except magic missile and maze spells. They can speak Auran and Common but rarely do so.

30 A will-o'-wisp's invisibility is natural and cannot be dispelled. Also, wisps living in the same area often share the same memories, experiences, and goals.

KNOWLEDGE (INT; TRAINED ONLY)
Like the Craft and Profession skills, Knowledge actually encompasses a number of unrelated skills. Knowledge represents a study of some body of lore, possibly an academic or even scientific discipline.
Below are listed typical fields of study.
• Arcana (ancient mysteries, magic traditions, arcane symbols, cryptic phrases, constructs, dragons, magical beasts)
• Dungeoneering (aberrations, caverns, oozes, spelunking)
• Geography (lands, terrain, climate, people)
• Local (legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, traditions, humanoids)
• Nature (animals, fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, plants, seasons and cycles, weather, vermin)
• Religion (gods and goddesses, mythic history, ecclesiastic tradition, holy symbols, undead)
• The planes (the Inner Planes, the Outer Planes, the Astral Plane, the Ethereal Plane, outsiders, elementals, magic related to the planes)
Check: Answering a question within your field of study has a DC of 10 (for really easy questions), 15 (for basic questions), or 20 to 30 (for really tough questions).
In many cases, you can use this skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities. In general, the DC of such a check equals 10 + the monster’s HD. A successful check allows you to remember a bit of useful information about that monster.
For every 5 points by which your check result exceeds the DC, you recall another piece of useful information.
Action: Usually none. In most cases, making a Knowledge check doesn’t take an action—you simply know the answer or you don’t.
Try Again: No. The check represents what you know, and thinking about a topic a second time doesn’t let you know something that you never learned in the first place.


Really the amount of info they get is up to you. "identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities" does not mean BaB and Save bonuses.

If you have an issue with players doubling up on knowledge checks[one PC rolls a knowlege check, then another does the same, just say both PCs learned from the same source and as such get the same info.

 

[norsedude]

Thanks for the thoughts. Actually, based on the ideas in the thread, I think I'll let the players ask simple yes or no type questions; basically turn the knowledge check into an augury type exchange. My players are 12th level. With maxed out knowledge skills, high intelligence and synergy etc., the players are adding about 18 to 20 to their roll of the dice. With a high roll the players will be able to ask about 3 or 4 pieces of information.