D&D 3E/3.5 known-abusable 3.5 combos/techniques/etc.

[Hypersmurf]

By the most core of core rules, you get a cohort of level determined by your leadership score complete with cohort equipment equal to what the core rules state.

Doesn't the wording state "The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level"?

I'm away from my books, so there may be something in the DMG text to distinguish... but in the SRD, at least, there's nothing to say whether this means "The cohort should come pre-equipped with gear appropriate for its level", or "The PC should equip the cohort with gear appropriate for its level".

It says he should be equipped, but it doesn't say equipped by whom...

-Hyp.

 

[Elemental]

In core: Dust of Sneezing & Choking. No save, incapacitation.

Outside: Tainted Scholar, from Heroes of Horror. With it, you can use your corruption score to determine spell save DC. And if you have a high enough CON, you can easily be carrying around 100+ corruption. See where this is going?

Eventually I'm planning to come up with a minimalist set of house rules that would address these things (which I'll post under house rules), but for now I'm just trying to figure out what's out there to be addressed.

When I was setting up a game, I decided not to have a specific list of banned stuff, because players will always find something you weren't counting on. Instead, I posted this:

As a general rule, anything badly overpowered or abusable is forbidden. I'm not going to produce an exhaustive list, but instead trust in player moderation to steer clear of things like Dust of Sneezing & Choking or the Tainted Scholar. If you're not sure about something, there's no problem with asking. Equally, if something proves unbalancing in play, it will be toned down or removed. Hopefully, that won't ever have to happen, but this way, everyone's on the same page. In general, if a certain feature or combination seems too good to be true, then it probably is.

Also, ask players what tactics they intend to use for their characters, what PrC's they intend to go for, and so on.

 

[Jack Simth]

You are, of course, free to implement whatever HOUSE RULES you wish.

It's not really the point of the thread, however.

By the most core of core rules, you get a cohort of level determined by your leadership score complete with cohort equipment equal to what the core rules state.

A PC taking leadership at 20th level is not suddenly made poorer in retrograde to cover a cohort's equipment costs (when the cohort shows up). Not only is that a house rule (as noted), it's well -- completely silly.

Heh; didn't mean suddenly that cloak of resistance +5 transmutes into a cloak of resistance +3; just that the cleric-15 you qualify for doesn't come with his own equippage, and the leadership penalty for losing cohorts for purposes of attracting cohorts is a cumulative one - so your cohort comes without equipment, and if you're bright, you'll be equipping your cohort appropriet to the campaign. Otherwise you're going to find yourself without a useful cohort in relatively short order.

 

[Hypersmurf]

... just that the cleric-15 you qualify for doesn't come with his own equippage...

Again, depending on how one reads "The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level".

-Hyp.

 

[Jack Simth]

Again, depending on how one reads "The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level".

-Hyp.

To quote myself from a few quote chains up "as a DM, at my own table"

I read that line as an instruction to the player.

Otherwise, you can get some really, really bad abuse with such things as the Thrallherd prestige class:

Kill Thrall, take Thrall's stuff.
Wait 24 hours.
Kill new Thrall, take new Thrall's stuff.
Wait 24 hours......

So, um, every 24 hours, you get, free of charge, the stuff for an NPC a level or two level below you? No. Nope. Not gonna happen.

 

[Solarious]

Oh yeah, how could we also forget the Cheater of Mystara.

Which combines a number of 'abuses' in one, deceptively simple and neat, Cleric5/10levelPrC/5levelPrC build. Mind you, the 10 level PrC is baroken in ways that suggest that the designers were on crack when they released it.

1) 'Initiate of Mystra' FR feat, which allows you to overcome Antimagic Fields, and casting your own CL11 field and then overcoming it with a Fort. save (which is obviously going to be buffed up) means you are mostly immune to magic while you shower opponents with divine 'blessings'.

2) We skip the Dewemonerkeeper's arcane casting prerequisites by utilizing a FR reigonal feat to cast 3 cantrips: therefore retaining full spellcasting. Item creation is bypassed by selecting the Rune domain, which grants Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat.

3) Now we come to the meat of the Cheater: the Supernatural Spell class ability. Experience is one of the great balancers of spells, because burning any of it always hurts. Which brings up the fact that Supernatural Spell ignores all components, including experience. Now, the Divine Disciple grants an extra domain, for which we shall select the 'Spell' domain.

'Spell' has Limited Wish at 7'th level.

The game completely implodes, not at something like level 18 or 19 (Your Actual Rate of Implosion May Vary), but at level 13. XP free Limitied Wishes, at minimum, bound by the RAW, allows you to bypass various obstacles, grants a high degree of flexibility in spell selection, and introduces free minor magical items into the system. Any amount of downtime allows the Cheater to break out of the loop of gp wealth per level. And once we do actually get to level 17, scream loudly, because the Cheater of Mystra can bring to the table such powers like stopping an erruption, ressurecting the entire party to finish off the enemy, and saving entire cities with a mere standard action and a 9'th level spell, thanks to the magic of XP-free Miracles.

FOUR times a day, at level 20.

Also, the Mantle of Spells class ability can let you spontaneously drop other prepared 9'th level spells for a Miracle like you do for Cure spells, therefore sacrificing no flexibility in being capable of performing such feats.

What could be done during downtime utilizing this method shall not be mentioned.

4) And now the little gimmicks that are pale in comparison to the almighty Supernatural Spell's power. Not really abuses, but more like features, tricks that are handy and boosts the power even more. Divine Disciple's 5'th level ability turns you into an outsider, which means you can polymorph yourself into a Planetar and gain all kinds of nifty bonuses (which has been curtailed by the Polymorph erreta). Divine Metamagic (Persistant Spell) allows powerful buffs to exist all day, without serious fear of dispelling (due to AM field). Spell domain and the spells Anyspell and Greater Anyspell for more arcane-like goodies. The general fact that the class has all this, plus heavy armors, weapons, and the rest of the baggage from the divinity of the Cleric class. I'm probably missing something here.

That's the Cheater of Mystra in a nutshell.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Eventually I'm planning to come up with a minimalist set of house rules that would address these things (which I'll post under house rules), but for now I'm just trying to figure out what's out there to be addressed.

Suggested house rule to address almost all abusable techniques mentioned so far:

"Only the PHB, DMG and MM will be used"

and then do something with polymorph

 

[molonel]

Suggested house rule to address almost all abusable techniques mentioned so far:

"Only the PHB, DMG and MM will be used"

and then do something with polymorph

Or, another more useful house rule - in my opinion - is, "I am the DM. If you bring anything into my game which I deem to be broken, I will remove it from the game, and allow you to choose a feat, or class levels, or whatever, in order to replace it. That is fair. If you make a habit of bringing such things into my game over time, I will ask you to leave my table."

That covers just about anything, really. Yes, it's a modified form of rule 0.

 

[green slime]

Any ability which allows a character to cast a spell of a spell level higher than what is expected in the game for that character level, is house-ruled in my game. Incantrix, Divine Metamagic, whatever. A ninth level character can't cast a spell which would normally occupy a 6th level or greater spell slot, with or without metamagic. Just no. Don't ask. Don't even think of asking. Don't even contemplate thinking about asking. I will beat you around the head with a wet, putrid, dead fish. And then I will leave the fish under your bed. Here in Scandinavia, they have lots of Surströmming and similar "delicacies" with which to torment your soul.

 

[Huw]

Wraith Strike with Persistent Spell.

I'd extend that to any swift spell with persistent spell - wraithstrike just the most obviously abusable. I don't have my books handy, but I believe that swift fly is only 2nd level.

When I get home, I'll get PHB II out, see how many of the duskblade spells can benefit from persistency.